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Dec 19, 2010 21:25:32 GMT
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For those of a sensitive nature bury your heads back in the sand now. "EU LEGISLATION (Extract from FIVA’s regular update provided by its lobbying service, EPPA) Second meeting of the European Parliament Historic Vehicle Group The second meeting of the European Parliament’s Historic Vehicle Group took place on 19 October in Strasbourg. During the meeting Horst Brüning, FIVA’s president and FBHVC’s Andrew Burt gave a presentation about the definition of a historic vehicle. They explained that a wide range of definitions are currently used in both EU and national laws and that ideally one common definition would be recognised by decision makers and in law. They then detailed the FIVA definition, explained its rationale and the importance of a definition allowing regulatory audiences to understand why historic vehicles should be treated differently to all other vehicles, especially to all other ‘older’ vehicles. Horst Brüning and Andrew Burt explained that the existing variety of definitions has not created any major practical problems to date, but that as legislation with exemptions for historic vehicles increases (which is likely because of the development of Intelligent Transport Systems and LEZs) there will be a heightened need for a common definition to avoid problems and make life simpler for owners, regulators and law enforcers in the future. They therefore urged the MEPs to help FIVA to promote and achieve a common definition for future use in EU legislation. The MEPs expressed their surprise at the current situation and agreed that they would aim to help FIVA in its objective." taken from www.fbhvc.co.uk/2010/12/13/newsletter-no-6-2010/Basically this means that FIVA definition is going to become the definition of Historic vehicles across the EU which brings in their definition of 'Period modifications only ' and 'Not daily driven' as shown in tech definition below www.fiva.org/EN/Downloads/Technical%20Code%20%202010%20ENG%2001012010.pdfLink to FBHVC article declaring Classisc only do 1500km per year www.fbhvc.co.uk/files/2008/12/fiva-report.pdfBritish version www.fbhvc.co.uk/files/2008/12/fiva-uk-report-web-version.pdf__________________
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Last Edit: Dec 20, 2010 20:30:07 GMT by kapri
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Dec 19, 2010 21:34:31 GMT
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So by modifying your car, or using it regularly, it ceases to be historic? Despite being the same car
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Dec 19, 2010 21:36:48 GMT
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i fail to see the problem?
there is specific classes for modified vehicles, both period and non period? and those that fall beyond class E would be liable for BIVA, making them no longer a historic vehicle anyway?
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Dec 19, 2010 21:39:06 GMT
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Hahahahaha.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Dec 19, 2010 21:39:36 GMT
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Not botherd TBH, road tax is still cheaper than garage rent but i can see lots of peeps up in arms over it and as usuall doing feck all about it appart ftom moaning that "something should be done by somebody (else) " Pass the sand bucket ;D
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R.I.P photobucket
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Dec 19, 2010 21:41:17 GMT
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plus, there no means of proving wether you use your historic vehicle as daily transport.
what they basically seem to be trying to do is give each vehicle an 'identity' card, to show its provenance it would seem. for an awful lot of cars this will only be a good thing I think- for example, itll make it very easy to differentiate between a 'real' mk1 mexico, and a replica, which is worth less. or a real mk1 mini cooper and a replica, etc.
oh, and your last link is duff, gives a website error.
also, the document you have liked too doesnt have the appendicies A and B putlining what a FIVA identity card actually constitutes, and how to apply for one.
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Last Edit: Dec 19, 2010 21:49:20 GMT by Dez
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Dec 19, 2010 21:45:14 GMT
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A bit less straight forward than the original post would have you believe then.
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Dec 19, 2010 22:03:07 GMT
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Last Edit: Dec 19, 2010 22:03:47 GMT by kapri
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Dec 19, 2010 22:08:52 GMT
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plus, there no means of proving wether you use your historic vehicle as daily transport. . Yet..... Bet theirs still some of those labour guys running around saying we need tracking systems fitted to lower our carbon emissions. And I'm assuming that if something like that was compulsory fitted to cars, Then it wouldnt be too hard to keep an eye on your usage. Most of the rumours we were hearing a few years back now, that most of us thought were poppycock, have become real.. Its all a case of when not if. That said, Theres sweet FA anyone can do about it. Its all pretty well governed by the EU, and if cameron cant get us out of anything else with them, What chance do the few classic car enthusiasts that can get there and have a voice, have against them? ZILCH
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Dec 19, 2010 22:09:27 GMT
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I fail to see the problem? there is specific classes for modified vehicles, both period and non period? and those that fall beyond class E would be liable for BIVA, making them no longer a historic vehicle anyway? Dez, Mitigate the above with these clauses also included in their definition. 1. DEFINITION FIVA defines a HISTORIC VEHICLE as a mechanically propelled road vehicle · which is at least 30 years old; · which is preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition; · which is not used as means of daily transport; · and which is therefore a part of our technical and cultural heritage. 3. GENERAL RULES 3.1 The HISTORIC VEHICLE shall be kept and used in a proper, environmentally sound manner and be preserved and used as in PERIOD. 3.2 Out of PERIOD modifications and other changes should be avoided and in principle be restricted to those required by the authorities or, due to disability or infirmity of the owner/driver, to ensure the safe use of the vehicle on the road. They should be made in the spirit of the PERIOD and in such a manner that the vehicle can be converted back to its historically correct condition.
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Dec 19, 2010 22:12:52 GMT
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plus, there no means of proving wether you use your historic vehicle as daily transport. what they basically seem to be trying to do is give each vehicle an 'identity' card, to show its provenance it would seem. for an awful lot of cars this will only be a good thing I think- for example, itll make it very easy to differentiate between a 'real' mk1 mexico, and a replica, which is worth less. or a real mk1 mini cooper and a replica, etc. oh, and your last link is duff, gives a website error. also, the document you have liked too doesnt have the appendicies A and B putlining what a FIVA identity card actually constitutes, and how to apply for one. Duff link should have been wiped correct one was above, now edited. Most of Europe has restrictions on use backed by paperwork to be sent off and verified before using the vehicle for that trip . We have just been informed that cruising fro Historics has been banned in Germany without a correct reason and destination point, a tightening of their existing regs gotten road normally by using a 'work permit' type Historic Tax plate...up to now.
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Dec 19, 2010 22:14:58 GMT
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interesting, I wonder how some modifications that are common but not period would fit in like... 1) electronic ignition 2) not being able to use asbestos brake linings as they are no longer made 3) fitting multi speed windscreen wipers instead of single speed ones 4) fitting a cd/mp3 player etc etc 5) using radial tyres instead of crossplys
or arnt they classed as modifications for the purpose of classification
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rtlkyuubi
Posted a lot
Low and Slow
Posts: 2,922
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Dec 19, 2010 22:27:50 GMT
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after reading all of this thread and I'm still mega confused So if you own a 30year or so old car but use it as a daily then you don't count in this this FIVA thing, what do you do? carry on as normal? start paying road tax? or not allowed to drive at all? But what if you do fall into the correct requirements but don't want to have a FIVA card? will they be mandatory? And finally with period modifications, does this mean you can fit modifications that were around when the car was originally built and you can bolt them on and its fine? Like having a 1960's viva and fitting a 1960's american v8 in it?
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Dec 19, 2010 22:37:39 GMT
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Right. If I've understood this correctly. Because I only plan on doing period mods to my 71 Avenger and don't plan on using it every day, it should retain it's historic status, and therefore it's free tax. Or am I completely wrong?
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As for tracking devices,taxi firms,employers police etc have been using these for years.now,unless somethings invented between now and then that doesn't involve using electricity in anyway then there's always a really easy way of stopping them from working,just remove the power to the device like I did for my mate on his taxi years ago.
A quick under dash switch meant he could be wherever he wanted!!!
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1. DEFINITION FIVA defines a HISTORIC VEHICLE as a mechanically propelled road vehicle · which is at least 30 years old; · which is preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition; · which is not used as means of daily transport; · and which is therefore a part of our technical and cultural heritage.
So does this mean we can have our rolling exemption back then? Or is our Govt picking and choosing which bits to go with?
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Wait and see if the presentation to the EU council makes it into UK law any time soon. In the mean time
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,617
Club RR Member Number: 11
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SO what if it was modified as a gasser say back in the 60's/70's surely restoring it back to that style is historically correct (it was a style from an era that isn't this one) and i would argue that it is definatley part of our technical and cultural heritage (thats such a broad broad spectrum they'd be stupid not to define that somehow)
It is a bit concerning that the government may try to implement some parts and not others, i.e. if you are paying normal tax for the car then you should be able to use the car as a normal car. If you get free tax then they have some comeback for asking you to restrict the use of it. You don't get something for nothing these days....
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I cant see anything going in favour of people like us with this. Its all going tits up. And unless we somehow manage to get national news coverage with some riot or somthing, We arnt able to change a thing. Rememeber , Not only are we car people (and therfore anti green movement ) But we also drive those sooty old bangers.... Not a chance in hell....
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Roobeh
Part of things
Posts: 502
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Rememeber , Not only are we car people (and therfore anti green movement ) But we also drive those sooty old bangers.... Not a chance in hell.... Woo! Go team! I guess it's just a case of owning a period historic vehicle that's not used daily or paying car tax like everybody else. What about electric conversions? do they get free car tax if it's not period? I must say (without getting too political) i'd really rather opt out of all these eu regs. they seem to be more hinderance than help.
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Last Edit: Dec 20, 2010 2:52:55 GMT by Roobeh
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