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Nov 17, 2010 19:47:41 GMT
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Interesting.
As engine swaps aren't " illegal " currently.
What would be the definition of an " illegal " modification.
Unless of course ANY modification is to be made illegal !?
Which will be VERY difficult to enforce. ??
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MrT
Posted a lot
Just who did Mr Hitler REALLY think he was kidding?
Posts: 1,773
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Nov 17, 2010 20:23:56 GMT
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I would have thought that the 'illegal tuning' check might well be something like the car being checked against data held on the Motor Insurance Database - maybe 'illegal tuning' would be something they find which you've not declared on your insurance policy? Undeclared mods could then lead to illegal/uninsured cars being siezed, etc, which is something I for one would welcome (having been hit before by a driver who hadn't declared his mods...).
Dale
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speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member
"Nice Cortina mate"
Posts: 2,296
Club RR Member Number: 118
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New MOT 2012speedy88
@speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member 118
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Nov 17, 2010 20:27:41 GMT
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Hopefully guidelines won't be released similar to those "illegal" modifications in America. I've got a whole new engine in mine, hopefully that won't be an "illegal" modification either.
I've got a new fuel map which gives off less emissions than my old one but how are they meant to test it? Rip out the ECU and stick it in a machine? The car didn't originally come with an ECU so is it going to be treated the same as when they do my exhaust emissions? (It's a CAT engine but the CAT isn't tested as there doesn't need to be one).
I'll worry about it when it happens, I might crash it/die from cancer before 2012.
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Nov 17, 2010 21:09:43 GMT
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Road tax bands are based on emissions. From highest to lowest band they are all within the MOT level. The new MOT will ensure the car is within the original manufacturers band for the model. If a car is modified and put it into a higher band model range then it will fail and I assume owner will have to either revert to standard or have it rebanded by VOSA. Of course this will only apply to post March 2001 vehicles and not RR's ;D Just my opinion.
Paul H
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Nov 17, 2010 21:28:34 GMT
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how much is the tuning and modifying worth in money and jobs to the gov? we the people need to start making our voices heard instead of sitting back, surly emissions should only comply with when the emissions tax rule came in 2001 as for mots being 4 years and then every 2 after that, to follow europe. i have just spent 6 years in spain, and 90% of cars out there (new and old)are death traps
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2010 21:30:53 GMT by tattoo101
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Nov 17, 2010 21:49:35 GMT
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We need a deffinition of illegal, but it worries me.... My car has a cam, ported head, different carbs and exhaust (or will do when I finish it (which might not be until 2012 if I am honest). So does that mean I have to go back to stock?? How would and MOT man know if there is a chip, cam, head work etc? ? Much more info on this is needed. Lewis From what we currently know there are no restrictions in this country on tuning providing the vehicle passes the relevant emmission test ,both at MOT time and any subsequent VOSA road side checks. However there have been ongoing problems where some OEM have stated they own the software in the ECU and it always remains theirs even when you purchase the car and they will not allow it o be modified. Also on newer cars the taxation rate is based on OEM declared emmission levels / economy . The problem with that is, even the manufacturers don't stand by their readings much after 3 years, so even unmodified cars may waver off the OEM declared levels. I found this out researching LEZ/Euro 3 definitions. So, if a car wanders off it's declared levels by the time it has it's first test, not only won't the manufacturer accept any responsibility, it would mean a lot of cars would fail the test if that's what VOSA are going on. I can't see that being allowed to happen.
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Nov 17, 2010 22:08:36 GMT
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how much is the tuning and modifying worth in money and jobs to the gov? we the people need to start making our voices heard instead of sitting back, surly emissions should only comply with when the emissions tax rule came in 2001 as for mots being 4 years and then every 2 after that, to follow europe. I have just spent 6 years in spain, and 90% of cars out there (new and old)are death traps "we the people" ,sorry to sound negative ( and not aimed at you per se ) but how many times have we heard that cry when something comes up that actually may affect 'you' but no attention is paid if it affects other enthusiasts ? People will witter and whinge and rage ...usually for a little while and then life goes on as usual. Meanwhile some of us are actually trying to do what we can with limited funding and resources. It is about time that the manufacturers and aftermarket in this country were looking after their target market and their own futures by being involved HEAVILY in this stuff. They will never do it without the pressure from its customers, next time you speak with a supplier ask them what THEY are doing about OUR future.
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Nov 17, 2010 22:10:50 GMT
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Meanwhile, there's lot of conjecture in this thread. VOSA know no more than any of us and have yet to work through what is required of them and how it will be actioned. As soon as they have formulated something we will give firmer details.
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VND
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,224
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Nov 17, 2010 22:16:15 GMT
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Youre a good egg dude. And appreciated.
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2010 22:16:56 GMT by VND
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stocky
Part of things
Posts: 184
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Nov 17, 2010 22:30:47 GMT
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I AM WORRIED! i work in a garage i work on modern cars and..... they are curse word! badly made out of bad materials and broken within a very short space of time, we see very very broken two year old cars let alone four year old ones!! 4 years before an mot is putting alot of people at risk when do we start to stand up to this? do we wait until a few familys are killed by dangerous nearly new cars? Admitedly there are some very dangerous old cars on the road but at least these are checked once a year!
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1985 escort cabby, 1998 escort estate, i need a hammer and the oxy!
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Stiff
Posted a lot
'kin 'ell
Posts: 3,019
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Nov 17, 2010 22:32:47 GMT
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Youre a good egg dude. And appreciated. +1
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,924
Club RR Member Number: 174
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New MOT 2012stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Nov 17, 2010 22:35:48 GMT
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I think 3 years for first MOT is too long. The MOT is usually the only time that normal people are told that they have bulbs out/bald tyres. Also a worrying thing I heard from Citroen dealer mechanic is that they're now not allowed to tell the customer about any faults occuring that aren't part of the yearly service, due to people now being allowed to use (usually cheaper) specialists for repair work.
Matt
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Nov 17, 2010 22:59:50 GMT
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Road tax bands are based on emissions. From highest to lowest band they are all within the MOT level. The new MOT will ensure the car is within the original manufacturers band for the model. The MOT test can't measure the CO2 emissions per kilometer, which is what the tax band is based on. That needs a stringently controlled rolling-road test, the like of which is only ever completed once during the lifetime of a car model - even brand new versions won't have been tested for CO2/Km at the factory. The MOT emissions test measures CO and Hydrocarbons - which are air quality pollutants - rather than CO2, which is a greenhouse gas. Kev - I certainly appreciate what you're doing. When I have more free time, I'd be glad to help out.
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stocky
Part of things
Posts: 184
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Nov 17, 2010 23:01:53 GMT
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Also a worrying thing I heard from Citroen dealer mechanic is that they're now not allowed to tell the customer about any faults occuring that aren't part of the yearly service, due to people now being allowed to use (usually cheaper) specialists for repair work. Read more: retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=92311&page=2#ixzz15aEwHRj1i think this is true of most main dealers as some of our customers that come to us for a clutch are shocked by the fact there are other faults with there car! well its just been serviced!!
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1985 escort cabby, 1998 escort estate, i need a hammer and the oxy!
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namless
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 580
Club RR Member Number: 26
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New MOT 2012namless
@namless
Club Retro Rides Member 26
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Nov 17, 2010 23:24:14 GMT
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seems like if this comes in to play modification can be kissed goodbye every one can drive a average oem spec motor. its more or less like a new car inspection engine mods X gearbox mods X spring mods X arch clearance X nuisance (exhausts) X or i suppose max power would be the way forward, falhords wheels, big plastic wings shopping trolley handles, 4X4 suspension, go fast stripes, and the lot haha
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Nov 17, 2010 23:57:09 GMT
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The ECU chipping test is probably for taxation reasons. Modern diesels etc often have two identical models on the market with different maps giving different peak power and therefore different CO2 emissions. If you have the lower powered model and chip it you get the benefit of higher power but still only pay cheap tax. If that is the case it will only affect cars manufactured after 2001 when CO2 emissions started to affect road tax class.
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"Alice in Wonderland's Cheshire cat is perhaps the 1.9-litre 205's closest parallel, for like Carroll's fiendish cat, when the Peugeot is gone only the grin remains." -What Car? March 1987
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,606
Club RR Member Number: 11
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New MOT 2012skinnylew
@skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member 11
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This is concerning but i can understand some of it. If you have a car that's tax is based on emissions and you have it chipped then the emissions will change and therefore the tax rate. That means you are avoiding tax. Personally the language used is concerning, i would far rather they introduced a seperate tax band for cars with modified ecu's, at a capped rate from their percentage increase in emissions at a static test. I think a modified car owner would be willing to pay a higher rate or tax for the extra power etc.
However why should my 1992 Ax GTi turbo with a piggy back ecu that isn't even cat converternecessary be penalised for having an ecu modification! bonkers!!
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MONEY, that's what it's about, at least any retrospective laws are. I grew up in Spanish law and most EU will allow you to mess with cars, as long as it's declared and got an expensive engineers signature to prove it. Still that does not stop em. To play devils advocate, I see loads of DIY work on modified cars that is shabby (I'm not free of sin) and if getting a higher standard stops people butchering cars and disrespecting safety then it can't be too bad. As for the engine thing, probably be a emissions thing innit. so all we need is 2 engine modes and one of these:
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its all about squeezeing money outa people, nothing to do with saveing the planet, safety etc. perpares for flameing
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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Ok so this only effects cars with ecu's fair enough change the law (not to say I'm happy with it) but can't they put it in plain English what is allowed and what isn't
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