Mr K
Posted a lot
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Dec 18, 2009 10:27:07 GMT
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My parents house has two 'commercially made' wood burners in it, and in the 3 years we have lived here we have only put the heating on a hand full of times!
ive got some gas bottles lined up, and good length of thick walled steel tube, but how do you guys remove the valve from the top of the bottle, i can empty them on the gas fire, but don't like the idea of just unscrewing the valve from the top, just in case.
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Dec 18, 2009 16:01:57 GMT
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A good belt with a dull chisel and a big hammer if its stuck - some persuasion is the only way to go. Make sure and leave it upside down then and outside cos they stink! And fill with water before you start cutting it open too
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Club Retro Rides Member
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Dec 18, 2009 20:41:14 GMT
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For hot water Dez, you're best off running what's called an Indirect system. Get a cylinder that has an internal coil that connects with two unions onto 22mm pipe. Now, if you can spend a little extra on it then try and get a 'fast recovery' cylinder.In these the 1" tap-ins for the coil turn into a bunch of microbore (10/8mm) tubes inside the cylinder which give you better surface to water heat transfer. Now, to not waste all those precious BTU's, your best bet at the stove is to wind a 22mm soft copper 'coil' INSIDE the stove - agaisnt the inner walls - as you'll get a LOT more heat transfered to the coil. Have you ever seen those cool camp stove/water boilers where the flame goes through a tube and the water is outside that inside a bigger tube?? Boils water in a fraction of the time!! So essentially.... coil inside stove with a small heating pump (Grundfos 15/50 or similar) on speed 1 pumping in a big circuit attached to the high recovery cylinder. Feed the hot water cylinder from the mains via a small header tank with a ballvalve...run top outlet to tap! Just remember you'll no doubt need some kind of expansion vessel in the 'circuit' that heats the water otherwise you'll blow your 'shop up! Any other questions, feel free to PM me - I quote, sell & spec heating systems for a living  |
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Your car is not 'epic', this thread is not 'epic'....the OCEAN is epic, the UNIVERSE is epic.... please stop misusing this word!! It would appear Hotrods are the new VWs - aint fashion funny! '69 BUICK LESABRE 350 |
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Dec 18, 2009 23:42:52 GMT
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My parents house has two 'commercially made' wood burners in it, and in the 3 years we have lived here we have only put the heating on a hand full of times! ive got some gas bottles lined up, and good length of thick walled steel tube, but how do you guys remove the valve from the top of the bottle, I can empty them on the gas fire, but don't like the idea of just unscrewing the valve from the top, just in case. drain the bottle with the tap fully open then unscrew it, if this does not work you could try what i did, drill a small hole slowly like 3mm in it then work you to 10mm or so, then fill with water and cut the tap off. or knock it off. i have done this a few times and to my experience they are not as volatile as i thought (forget this last bit if you blow one up). X |
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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lets talk woodburners.......Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Dec 19, 2009 15:02:46 GMT
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For hot water Dez, you're best off running what's called an Indirect system. Get a cylinder that has an internal coil that connects with two unions onto 22mm pipe. Now, if you can spend a little extra on it then try and get a 'fast recovery' cylinder.In these the 1" tap-ins for the coil turn into a bunch of microbore (10/8mm) tubes inside the cylinder which give you better surface to water heat transfer. Now, to not waste all those precious BTU's, your best bet at the stove is to wind a 22mm soft copper 'coil' INSIDE the stove - agaisnt the inner walls - as you'll get a LOT more heat transfered to the coil. Have you ever seen those cool camp stove/water boilers where the flame goes through a tube and the water is outside that inside a bigger tube?? Boils water in a fraction of the time!! So essentially.... coil inside stove with a small heating pump (Grundfos 15/50 or similar) on speed 1 pumping in a big circuit attached to the high recovery cylinder. Feed the hot water cylinder from the mains via a small header tank with a ballvalve...run top outlet to tap! Just remember you'll no doubt need some kind of expansion vessel in the 'circuit' that heats the water otherwise you'll blow your 'shop up! Any other questions, feel free to PM me - I quote, sell & spec heating systems for a living ile keep that in mind johnny, sounds like you know your sh!t when it comes to this. ive been stashing any bits i think my be useful, got about 25ft of copper pipe now, loads of fixings, header tank and ballcock, etc. its anothetr one of those 'get round to it when things are quiet' projects, so its still a way off really, as things are far from quiet!! |
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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lets talk woodburners.......rob0r
@rob0r
Club Retro Rides Member 104
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Dec 22, 2009 14:08:51 GMT
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After reading this thread I'm convinced I want a wood burner in my living room! My house doesn't have central heating (seperate water heater tank) and currently we're relying on electrical oil filled radiators to keep us warm. There is an open fire but this did nothing to keep us warm, and since I now have a big telly above the fireplace (I have my priorities  ) I didn't want the smoke/ash affecting it. A self contained woodburner sounds like a great solution, and I have access to free wood. As much as I want to cut up any old spare gas tanks I have laying around I'm sure the girlfriend will have a fit if I placed one in the fireplace! I reckon I'll have to buy a second hand one similar to Datman's. I have a traditional fireplace/chimney so do I simply put a flue up inside the chimney and it's job done? Excuse my ignorance if not... |
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E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i
ETC
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Dec 22, 2009 18:58:48 GMT
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RobOR, woodburners are the way forward (or backwards!). Very little ash to be honest, it burns fairly clean especiallyin comparison with wood. I burnt loads of wood the other day and filled my stove up loads with sawdust and it only produced a little bit of ash for the whole thing! Even at my folks house they've reverted back to a woodburning stove to heat the whole house. Do it, make one!! Actually, you could be the first one to make it out of BMW bits!!
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Club Retro Rides Member
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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lets talk woodburners.......Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Dec 22, 2009 19:21:02 GMT
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rob, yeah you need a flue up the chimney, or youll set fire to the inside of it. my old one had that metal convoluted pipe running right to the top- don't know if this was to current fire safety spec, but it worked well. then you block off the rest of the chimney so theres no drafts.
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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lets talk woodburners.......rob0r
@rob0r
Club Retro Rides Member 104
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Dec 22, 2009 19:59:55 GMT
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Thanks for the advice guys. As much as I would like to forge one out of E21/E30/E34 spares I've already been told I have to go for a "pretty" one! So this pretty much rules out anything homebrew... I'm looking at ones similar as below. cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250549125448Dez, this might be a stupid question but does the flue have to go right up to the top of the chimney? I expect it does. This might be a problem since I live in a 3 storey house, so the length of flue will be massive and to block it off at the top will prove to be tricky to even get up there. |
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E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i
ETC
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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lets talk woodburners.......Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Dec 22, 2009 20:22:07 GMT
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tbh i don't know- but mine did. that was fun, working about 40ft of steel tubing up from the bottom!!
the top don't need to be capped- only the bottom, its just to stop drafts down the existing chimney coming into the room, and birds/soot etc falling down.
the stop i had was the 4-door version of that, so twice as wide, and it was pretty good, kicked out some serious heat.
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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Dec 22, 2009 20:45:44 GMT
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The flue dose not have to go to the top of the chimney. If it dose not the flue pipe gose up into the chimney then the bottom needs to be blocked of with I 1.5mm or thicker steel plate with sweeping hatches in it so the soot can be removed after sweeping.
The plate needs supporting on steel angle section fixed to the chimney sides with bolts that go into the brick work. no plastic plugs they may melt and will do in a chimney fire, the plate also needs painting in heat resistant stove paint to stop it rusting (soot is very carosive to steel the floor of my van is shot)
You should apply for building control if you are fitting it yourself but few people do, the chimney will need to be pressure tested as part of the building control.
If you have the right grade and size of class one twin wall flex then the stove will work better.
If fitted by some one else (a stove fitter like me make sure they are HETAS regestered) you need a HETAS certificate instead of building control.
A stove or an open fire should be swept once a year.
Hope this helps a bit.
PS an 8KW stove is about twice what the average living room needs and anything over 5KW needs and air vent to make it work right or you are just waisting fuel
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Last Edit: Dec 22, 2009 22:55:14 GMT by stefan
POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz
1997 Saab 93 convertible
2010 transit 280
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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lets talk woodburners.......rob0r
@rob0r
Club Retro Rides Member 104
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Dec 22, 2009 21:51:49 GMT
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Wow, great advice! I think more thought is needed rather than my initial "whack it in there" approach, there is a lot to consider. I think I've missed the boat for sorting it this winter, but it's a must for next year.
Is building control tricky or fairly straightforward?
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E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i
ETC
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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Dec 22, 2009 22:54:19 GMT
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Not to difficult the stove may come with fitting instructions but they are usually very poor.
Under the regs you need a 225mm hearth in front on the stove and make sure the lintle in the fire place is not wood.
Its easy if you know what you are doing I am doing one tomorrow but I have already pressure tested the chimney so it will take me about 4 hours, dropping a liner and conecting up is a day job for 2 people.
Building control depends on if your council has some one who knows what they are looking at I have seen some very bad instalations get through, My local council has recently sent me out to sign of jobs for them as they do not know what they are looking at.
Also if you have a wood burner in a garage you are not covered for fire as it is against the regs and no insurance company will pay out, that said i have one and its staying.
If you need any help just ask me on here or PM me
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Last Edit: Dec 22, 2009 22:58:13 GMT by stefan
POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz
1997 Saab 93 convertible
2010 transit 280
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Despite being ex coal board houses, around here it's a no smoke zone. :-(
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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you can get exempted stoves that you can burn wood on in a smokeless zone or you can fit a multi fuel stove and burn smokeless coal on it
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POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz
1997 Saab 93 convertible
2010 transit 280
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Dec 23, 2009 10:52:09 GMT
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Have to add we've been using ours a lot this past week and it's excellent. Work from home so ran a massive network cable downstairs (work IT disable wifi as it's dangerous!) and worked infront of it these past few days. Our chimney already had air bricks either side so I fitted those metal adjustable louvres on so I close them off when coldish but no fire and open them up when the fire goes for the air. We were lucky that our chimney was already lined so the engineer just fitted a better register plate with the hole in the right place to line up with the woodburner and a new chimney pot and away we went.   As the burner takes up most of the void the shop specified a wood burner where a few plates are removed from inside it to allow sweeping through the burner rather than through a seperate sweeping hole which we didn't have room for. Also as our fireplace is off the floor (weird French design) the hearth is on the floor and seperate and a little off looking! We did consider one of those completely flush wood burners but most are a bit too modern. Also most are shown in brochures with no hearth which is a little naughty.  |
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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Dec 23, 2009 17:26:57 GMT
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Yes alot of brochures shoe things that you are not alowed to do the customers say i want that and you have to tell them they carn't have it its unsafe.
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POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz
1997 Saab 93 convertible
2010 transit 280
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Jan 22, 2010 19:20:40 GMT
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Just copying this across to here from the wanted section because some of you wood burner makers might be able to help If anyone has, going spare a chimney pipe/flue liner, please let me know? I know this isn't directly car related....but it is kind of car related and very RR related ;D Grunty is kindly making Area 52 a wood burning stove (its damn cold down there at the moment!) and we need a chimney for it. 5" or ideally 6" pipe with probably about 8ft needed overall (we will need to cut/bend it because it is going out through a side wall due to having an asbestos roof  ) Needed by the 30th Jan because that is when it is hopefully being installed, so if anyone knows of one spare, please let me know? If a long way from Bristol I will have to try and sort some kind of RR courier. Many thanks, Bruce. |
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jhitch
Part of things
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Jan 22, 2010 22:44:32 GMT
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if anybody wants a real log burner fitted into house and located in staffordshire, then my friend is a qualified installer of log burners  so get in tough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hitch (pm me if you are interested) |
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) I didn't want the smoke/ash affecting it. A self contained woodburner sounds like a great solution, and I have access to free wood. As much as I want to cut up any old spare gas tanks I have laying around I'm sure the girlfriend will have a fit if I placed one in the fireplace! 
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