bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,968
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Aug 18, 2009 10:49:32 GMT
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Sprint comments and feedback thread - ALL I just want to get a bit of feedback from both people who went on track and the people who watched as if we do this thing again I’d like it to be better for all. Event FormatSo it ended up going back to a sprint instead of a time attack which was for a while a possibility till the logistics got worked out. Would have been limited to a max of 40 cars doing a session (3 runs) had we gone time attack where a sprint format gave us max of 100 cars doing a session (3 runs) or less cars doing multiple runs. the track action was good - did seem a little slow though the way it was ran but i'm not complaining. We had up to 10 cars in a session in a small area away from the track (at the slowest point of the circuit) which became out staging area – had we used all the track we would have to bring the cars in and out one at a time which would have slowed things down a lot. I know on the early sessions I was a little slow on releasing the cars (and some drivers were slow to get ready in the staging area) and the drivers briefing also took a little longer too as it was new to all. Was the 10 cars in a session to much? – certainly later sessions had fewer cars in then and they turned over faster but was this better or not? Did people who did multiple sessions from morning thro to afternoon think smaller groups worked better or did bigger groups give you more time to recover or compose yourself for the next run I did 6 runs on the bounce in the lunch break and my Monza (even though it is used to track work with half hour sessions with full beans from start to finish) didn’t like the fact that the track speed was max 70 and had several braking zones and little chance to recover engine temp or brake temp so I’m sure that a break is usefull. Track LayoutWe laid the track to be as safe as possible whilst still being fun and adopted a 2 lap layout to increase the track time – RR07 at Mallory ended up with a similar amount of time on track so it felt right to me. As a few people went wrong and ended up doing three laps could we improve on this aspect or is it a case of whatever we do people will occasionally go wrong? I was tempted to remove the chicane on the run down from the top of the circuit on the second lap so it didn’t feel the same but I felt this may result in a different entry speed to the hairpin so could result in Armco contact so decided against it due to risk PreparationI put a lot of preparation into the set up of the event sorting out the car numbers, timing sheets, session time plan (although that went west when we found track couldn’t start till 10am and I had 930 as a start time), entry info slips so I could quickly compile the results. Were the stickers a good idea or not – next time we could allow drivers to keep with the same numbers for the whole day (displaying two numbers where cars were shared “3 in the case of Ed’s 2002” Just covering the ones that didn’t apply for that session ). The RRG09 core team hired the timing equipment for the event which included a huge display that showed the time taken around the circuit as well as held the final time but Haynes wouldn’t allow us to use it. As a result I think people viewing were not aware of just how close some of the cars were or the drama that was unfolding – If we go back to Haynes to ask what we need to do to allow us to display times and it results in a cost increase to cover increased liability insurance or any other requirements would it still be good value? Prizes/Awardswish they had given prizes for the sprint though As I stated elsewhere I needed to explain this – we couldn’t time live and results had to be posted after the event so it wasn’t possible to give prizes or awards on the day and we can look to how we do this if we run the event again but I could do a small run of stickers with place in class or overall position if the majority of people who participated wanted that? Other CommentsIf anyone has any other comments not covered by above that would improve the event in anyway just post em up |
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Aug 18, 2009 10:59:05 GMT
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I agree with keepin the chicane in the back streight, main from an armco damage point of view, the twin direction corner at the end may benifit from a 1right tight / 2right 90 sign perhaps but with the track feeling short it's easy to go wrong here. and as for the time between runs I was in a morning session and the cool down period between runs was well recieved. All in all, happy with the cost, layout and time on track.
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Stu_B
Posted a lot
Investing in rust!
Posts: 1,266
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Aug 18, 2009 11:02:22 GMT
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As a spectator it was great to watch, it had a fun vibe & really was the highlight of the show for me. I've not been to many shows with track action & really wish I'd had my car there to give it a go.
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Aug 18, 2009 11:06:06 GMT
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I thought the track (as a competitor in the second group) was organized and managed awesomely well!! Time in the car was ideal, time between laps was spot on (allowed cars to cool) I thought locking the drivers in the 'cage' was an awesome idea, 100% safe as no dog or kids could get on the track and allowed trouble free sprints The circuit was spot on, made the most of what was there, and more importantly it was a nice challenge  The sprint set up was brill, gave enough time to have a laugh but not too much to get carried away and have the risk of stacking it It would have been nice to have a display of times (as everyone always wants to go faster lol) No complaints from me 10/10 |
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,991
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Aug 18, 2009 11:06:12 GMT
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credit goes out to you BC, you did an excellent job. it was better organised than mallory regarding the car details etc.
i think the track could have been different but i understand it is difficult to find somewhere safe to hold a group of cars waiting. the number of cars was good, it gave time for us to watch a few cars go round and let the cars cool a little and also gather our nerves (well mine particularly ;D )
the main issue with the track is the obvious hairpin, which is blatently designed to be attacked from the opposite direction. the chicane was good, i enjoyed going round that.
the timing display would have been good to see, also i thought, if possible, a speed trap maybe on coming out of the chicane, would be good to see comparisons and would have helped with trying to beat times, i didnt have a clue how i was doing, didn't stop me from enjoying myself thoroughly. If using a display pushes costs up past £20 then i think that may be too much for the time involved. i thought the rolling road was a bit overpriced aswell although i have no clue as to what the cost covers so not for me to say, and i do realise that has nothing to do with this thread.
all in all, it worked very well with the major concern being me bending my car ;D
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mk14dr
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 4,472
Club RR Member Number: 85
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Aug 18, 2009 11:08:18 GMT
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It was my first taste of track time, and it felt like a slick operation to me. The time between runs was, I feel, needed and the time on the track was plenty. In fact I don't think theres anything I would change, apart from some better springs on the car Cheers again BC and crew  |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,968
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Aug 18, 2009 11:11:41 GMT
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the main issue with the track is the obvious hairpin, which is blatently designed to be attacked from the opposite direction. Thought of that at the set up stage but it was too easy  the timing display would have been good to see, also I thought, if possible, a speed trap maybe on coming out of the chicane, would be good to see comparisons and would have helped with trying to beat times, I didnt have a clue how I was doing, didn't stop me from enjoying myself thoroughly. If using a display pushes costs up past £20 then I think that may be too much for the time involved. Thats what I need to know |
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Colonelk
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,742
Club RR Member Number: 83
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Aug 18, 2009 11:24:25 GMT
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have to say I think it was very well setup and thought out. If Id change anything Id fill the hole at the hairpin (not RR's responsibility I know! it was just the only bit of the track that was pretty nasty on the car) This could always of been solved by me driving round it of course! I know I went wrong a couple of times, but I think thats just going to happen really on that circuit where you reuse some of the track, the old adrenalin takes over and its easy to sort of get it wrong. Agreed times would of been nice, esp from a spectator point of view. As said if it pushed cost over £20 then it may be a problem. I think anything else was sorted during the day. I'm guessing after the first session you told people to be ready queued and ready to rock before the car on track was back in. I'm sure each car having 1 number for the day would of helped your paperwork, but it may of made ordering confusing, unless cars just went in parked order. But yeah seemed pretty slick to me maybe would of been interesting if the fastest X number of cars in each class got called back at the end of the day and offered a free session to improve their time? sorta like a prize, free track time. On the other hand it could get people pushing too much. Hmmmm. |
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Aug 18, 2009 11:35:37 GMT
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I think track time was ok from a spectator point of view, it kept our kids amused as the cars going round changed quite frequently, also the chicane in the straight was a good idea as it meant we had two spins right in front of us, maybe not good for the drivers but good to watch. Times displayed probably wouldn't make much odds to spectators as most of us came and went over the day anyway. Only fault I can find is that I didn't have a car to go round in, i'll need to remedy that I think as the RR would just fall over. |
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Aug 18, 2009 11:37:18 GMT
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I wouldn't have changed anything, as I said before it ran so smoothly and I don't think anyone felt hard done by. Those people who wanted to go round and round could, and those who just wanted to have a go had the opportunity too.
From a competitors point of view, although it's nice to know what times you're running I don't think it's necessary, you know when you've braked later into a corner or when you've got the loud pedal down a bit earlier and that's how you improve your times. If you say 'I will beat this time' then accidents happen. However it would have been great to be able to share the excitement of that last session with the spectators ;D
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1997 TVR Chimaera
2009 Westfield Megabusa
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Aug 18, 2009 11:37:18 GMT
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I have to say from my experience the track sessions were well run, obviously there was from the contestants which slowed things down a bit, but all things considering it ran quite smoothly.
Personally, I found it very hard to do 1 lap and then come in, wait and then go back out again, I would have rather done my 3 laps in succession – this would have meant my brakes and tires would have stayed at a good temperature, and also it helps you get into the flow. Considering the time it would take for someone to run 3 laps in succession you would probably find you would seriously cut down on the turn around time.
The chicane needs to be retained for the back straight as otherwise it would be pretty boring, and the speed some of the faster cars would carry down the back straight would potentially mean greater chance of a smack at the far end.
That tight bend just after the back straight was less than great though, totally against the flow of the track and I almost ripped my exhaust off on it. I felt it would have been better to hold the cars outside of the circuit and use the full circuit, so rather than take the tight turn take the proper circuit route and basically go around the top loop where the cars were waiting and back around on yourself.
If the staging box was on the main straight somewhere then that would also work for timing – and would also mean the car could do a quick cool down run after the 3 laps are over. They then leave the circuit at the same time the next car comes in.
Also rather than bothering running people in order etc, allocate the numbers for the session and get the drivers to queue up in a line (as before) and just run them on a 1st come 1 served basis – noting times against numbers?
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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Aug 18, 2009 11:38:40 GMT
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the track looked very good from the outside.
It did look a little bit slow, but i think that's just because you're on the outside, it could've been very scary when you where in a car trying to go round!
the chicane was good, i wouldn't want to risk of the higher speeds + armco either!
I recall you telling me that the golf and the escort had "braking problems" allready, because they came of the line better then the run before and therefore approaching the first bend faster, imagine that if you are running at full chat all along the straight!
it looked awesome from the stands, and if i did bring a trackworthy car i'd done a few laps for sure!
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Aug 18, 2009 11:44:18 GMT
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I was happy not knowing my time, especially if it would have cost more - I knew I was pushing it harder by the percentage time my mudflaps were scraping the floor! The hill at the bottom threw me off course a bit because I had to avoid it, but it wasn't so bad. I had a lot of fun and got a decent time with no damage to the car, so I'm pleased all round |
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Aug 18, 2009 11:45:05 GMT
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If we go back to Haynes to ask what we need to do to allow us to display times and it results in a cost increase to cover increased liability insurance or any other requirements would it still be good value? You are getting into a whole MSA official thing here.. and it gets very complex. I'm not sure that Haynes will let go further with it... in fact I'm worried they may be a bit more strict with us next year. Lights and things imply racing which really does cause them issues. Notice these guys are just doing a count down : .. I don't think they even have timing equipment. We got away with a lot,... but we need to respect the venue we are at. |
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Aug 18, 2009 11:56:59 GMT
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I absolutely loved it. Many thanks. Couldn't be much better really, though I can see that the cars not on stilts like my 2CV would not have liked the hairpin bump.
I s'pose one option to save time might have been to have someone doing the driver's briefing while the next session lined up outside perhaps? That's just thinking aloud as I personally couldn't really fault it.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,968
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Aug 18, 2009 11:58:23 GMT
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If we go back to Haynes to ask what we need to do to allow us to display times and it results in a cost increase to cover increased liability insurance or any other requirements would it still be good value? You are getting into a whole MSA official thing here.. and it gets very complex. I'm not sure that Haynes will let go further with it... in fact I'm worried they may be a bit more strict with us next year. Lights and things imply racing which really does cause them issues. Notice these guys are just doing a count down : .. I don't think they even have timing equipment. We got away with a lot,... but we need to respect the venue we are at. Point taken - was a cracking venue tho and thanks for giving me the opportunity to look after the track activity - I enjoyed it - just looking for things we can do to make it better for next time |
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Aug 18, 2009 11:59:36 GMT
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Point taken - was a cracking venue tho and thanks for giving me the opportunity to look after the track activity - I enjoyed it - just looking for things we can do to make it better for next time Definitely there are ways and means to improve things, but as a first crack is was brilliant |
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Aug 18, 2009 12:01:37 GMT
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Point taken - was a cracking venue tho and thanks for giving me the opportunity to look after the track activity - I enjoyed it - just looking for things we can do to make it better for next time Definitely there are ways and means to improve things, but as a first crack is was brilliant Yup, that says it all really. I wouldn't worry too much BC - if you look for negative feedback, you'll find it but everyone I saw coming off the track had a grin like a Cheshire cat, which says 'job done' to me! ;D |
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,968
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Aug 18, 2009 12:02:30 GMT
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I s'pose one option to save time might have been to have someone doing the driver's briefing while the next session lined up outside perhaps? That's just thinking aloud as I personally couldn't really fault it. Great idea - I've already written out my briefing notes so I have something to use for next time My other idea was to have it formatted on a sheet of A4 with a track Map showing course layout start and finish so that it could be given out at sign on |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,968
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Aug 18, 2009 12:06:34 GMT
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Point taken - was a cracking venue tho and thanks for giving me the opportunity to look after the track activity - I enjoyed it - just looking for things we can do to make it better for next time Definitely there are ways and means to improve things, but as a first crack is was brilliant For me it's nice that we could organise it and staff it ourselves without it being a huge drain on resources that could have been better used elsewhere Do you want the results formated in a PDF for the web site - after all I figure that some of the people who attended on the day are not RR regulars or would it be better to put a link to the forum Or would it be better not to have anything at all if we "got away with a bit too much" ;D |
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the track action was good - did seem a little slow though the way it was ran but i'm not complaining.
wish they had given prizes for the sprint though
