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Jul 26, 2009 15:29:18 GMT
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does biva cost alot? money I don't have..... pay enough to keep cars on the road as is. BIVA costs more than an MOT or SVA did, but compared to the cost of building or insuring a car its not a huge expense, i would expect most people on here to spend similar on a set of wheels and tyres, so moaning about the cost don't wash, if you can afford to modify a car enough for it to need a test, you can afford to pay for the test, prefering to spend the money on something else is not the same as not being able to afford it.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jul 26, 2009 15:33:42 GMT
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so instead of just buying wheels and getting it on the road , now id have to buy them and afford the test... basically the cost of modifying the car has gone up . alot! I was made redundant and havnt worked since febuary.. I don't have any specific skills so when working I'm not exactly loaded. every extra bit this country tries to screw out of me makes a huge difference, so sorry but the money situation does matter! I'm being effectivly taxed out of my hobby.
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Last Edit: Jul 26, 2009 15:34:40 GMT by retrowagen1234
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Jul 26, 2009 16:38:29 GMT
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i gues thats the way you see it, i see that the prices of cars has come down and down over the years, older ones last longer and will do more miles before wearing out, the cost of parts has come down with the advent of the internet let alone finding them in the first place.
Effectively the cost of owning and modifying cars has got cheaper over the years, i'm not one to throw money around, i'm off work and have been for over two years due to health issues, so i'd rather not have to pay an extra test fee, but personally i reckon it'll gradually mean that the standard cars are modded to goes up overall.
Its a one off test fee that'll keep some ropey motors off the road and providing you build your car right, it'll either not be elligable or it'll pass easily.
better the system we have here than what the rest of europe suffer with.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,517
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Jul 26, 2009 16:51:10 GMT
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so instead of just buying wheels and getting it on the road , now id have to buy them and afford the test... basically the cost of modifying the car has gone up . alot! I was made redundant and havnt worked since febuary.. I don't have any specific skills so when working I'm not exactly loaded. every extra bit this country tries to screw out of me makes a huge difference, so sorry but the money situation does matter! I'm being effectivly taxed out of my hobby. The only reason for needing to undergo an IVA test is if you have changed or modified sufficient parts of your car that it would fail the DVLA "Points" test as detailed earlier in this thread.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Jul 26, 2009 17:50:39 GMT
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so instead of just buying wheels and getting it on the road , now id have to buy them and afford the test... basically the cost of modifying the car has gone up . alot! I was made redundant and havnt worked since febuary.. I don't have any specific skills so when working I'm not exactly loaded. every extra bit this country tries to screw out of me makes a huge difference, so sorry but the money situation does matter! I'm being effectivly taxed out of my hobby. The only reason for needing to undergo an IVA test is if you have changed or modified sufficient parts of your car that it would fail the DVLA "Points" test as detailed earlier in this thread. This is true, IF you either have no logbook or it incorrectly describes the vehicle (Body style, wheelplan, Chassis Number), DVLA will want to inspect the vehicle, apply the points scheme and maybe send you for IVA. Under the current rules, nothing else needs inspecting, and, as ACE confirmed earlier this has been the case for a very long time and there are no current plans to change it. So, am I right in thinking that, at the moment, if you have a registered vehicle and need to notify DVLA of changes to any of the following * wheel plan * body type * vehicle identification number (VIN) * chassis number * frame number for motorcycles (from here ) You may be called to a DVLA local office for inspection. At this inspection, they will apply the "points system" Scoring components The following values will be allocated to the major components used: * chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points * suspension = 2 points * axles = 2 points * transmission = 2 points * steering assembly = 2 points * engine = 1 point Where there is evidence that two vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie 'cut and shut') a 'Q' mark will be allocated, IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA will be required. hereLess than 8 points scored, or modified chassis/bodyshell it's IVA time. Chopping in body parts from another (previously registered) car constitutes cutting and shutting, it's IVA time again. BUT the points criteria only applies if you change one of the five "inspection" changes listed above, and most people here are not considering changing wheelplan, body type or VIN/chassis number, and therefore not calling the "identity" of the vehicle into question. The only other way the DVLA will want to inspect is if the vehicle loses its logbook through writeoff, and then fails a VIC check. All clear enough, I think... but is this still the case, and is it likely to change? You are correct, that's the current spec and has been that way for over 25 years .Yup, none of this is new !! There has been no inference of any forthcoming changes. The last review of procedures was about 4/5 years back which was when ACE was founded to deal with some worrying issues raised at that time.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Jul 26, 2009 18:04:14 GMT
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I gues thats the way you see it, I see that the prices of cars has come down and down over the years, older ones last longer and will do more miles before wearing out, [glow=red,2,300]the cost of parts has come down with the advent of the internet let alone finding them in the first place.[/glow] Not the case with Oldskool Fords! Anything older than 1985 seems to attract an extra 0 in the price these days!
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Jul 26, 2009 18:10:17 GMT
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I gues thats the way you see it, I see that the prices of cars has come down and down over the years, older ones last longer and will do more miles before wearing out, [glow=red,2,300]the cost of parts has come down with the advent of the internet let alone finding them in the first place.[/glow] Not the case with Oldskool Fords! Anything older than 1985 seems to attract an extra 0 in the price these days! maybe so, but back when I was driving a mk1 escort because it was a cheap run around not because it was cool, you can bet your life a 30 year old (1940's/50's) Ford would have cost me a much higher percentage of my earnings to own and modify and been a LOT more difficult to keep on the road.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jul 26, 2009 18:37:57 GMT
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I'm aware that now a lightly modified car (my mk1 with lowered shocks, springs, and revos... bucket seats, possibly a turbo at some point) doesnt come into this yet... but give it a while, we didnt see this coming not so long ago, and now were in the middle of it it trying to guess whats what, its innevitable that its just going to go crazy at some point. I'm just glad I'm not investing thousands into my car.... This has been here for years.its pretty much the SVA test.. and the fact is if your car needs an IVA test chances are it should of gone through SVA too. After all its all still based on the same points system. The real difference is they are actually trying to enforce it. Guess it may well get worse over time.. more stringent etc etc. but thats something i've come to expect its sad to say. Guessing people have to get used to building a car to meet the regs as opposed to building whatever they want and dodging the inspections. Fact is this is gonna hurt a lot more 'restorers/rebuilders' than us.. think of all coil sprung series landrover conversions, not to mention the tax dodging..
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Daily: Spazda Mx5
'A52's Fastest steak eater 2010'
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Jul 26, 2009 20:17:07 GMT
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rubellion has been around a long time so in the grand scheme of things I assume its irrelivent in this case yes?? if it did need to I can see that car being a mountain of paperwork tho. I'm beginning to be tempted by the idea of giving up this car curse word as this is only going to get worse First mistake is that is not Rubellion, it is the BODY of Rubellion( and possibly the chassis ) and bodies carry no points in the DVLA system UNLESS it's a monococque.
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Jul 26, 2009 20:27:29 GMT
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Actually having said that, does anyone know where the exemptions for commercials are listed, or is it a seperate set of regs altogether? I been looking for a body thats the right length for my RR chassis so I don't have to get it tested, but if I put a van on it it should be easier to get it through anyway being a commercial, I can put a LWB van on it then and stretch the chassis, much better idea for a day van with more interior space. The exemptions are listed in the SVA test document ( NOT the BIVA document ) . There are strict criteria for what is acceptable for the Goods Test. Custom Car has been featuring a full rundown on registration history and how DVLA have altered their specs during the years and how the history of the car is most important. There has also been a breakdown of what's required for Commercial SVA section by section, 4 back issues including this months and the next 2 issues cover the registration process and how imported modified cars are dealt with , 6 issues in total at £3.50 -4.00 an issue..all you ever wanted to know Most of the info you need about BIVA is already in this thread, it's a question of reading all the posts and all will become apparent. Burying 'your' head in the sand will not make any of this go away. If you deal with it now 'you' won't be crying about it later but everyone has freedom of choice on how to build .Just do it from an informed point of view and ,unlike most nowaday, accept the consequences of your actions if it all goes wrong and ends up costing dear.
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Jul 26, 2009 20:32:16 GMT
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Apologies I haven't been by earlier been out enjoying my SVA'd truck all weekend and then manning the ACE set up with a couple of others . Looking forwad to meeting up with some of you guys at the gathering
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Jul 27, 2009 10:11:29 GMT
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Quick question.....
Given the extensively modified monocoque issue, what happens then with convertible conversions? Will these need to be to go through BIVA / IVA?
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Jul 27, 2009 10:48:40 GMT
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Well what if I already have a class7 MOT? I am not going to open the SVA/BIVA/ can of worms. My class7 MOT bloke (different from the kid who does class4, and did the Mk1) knows exactly what a Mk2 transit looks like. He's also aware one of ours doesn't have a Mk2 Ford chassis, but will still pass it if it's not rotten! It does seem though that it would be exempt as it was done in 1985, and the company still exists as I rang them, and they still even have a record of the work they did!
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Jul 27, 2009 22:16:14 GMT
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Paul H, yes, non factory convertible conversions should got for BIVA .
Fred transit ,vehicles converted before 1998 with DLA correctly informed of all changes have a large degree of protection. What your MOT guy does is his concern , as are the consequences of knowingly ignoring something that doesn't match its DVLA description / VIN number etc.
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Last Edit: Jul 27, 2009 22:18:25 GMT by kapri
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Jul 27, 2009 22:25:47 GMT
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Once again, you are at odds with my (recent) experience ace...
Firstly, I was involved with a convertable mini last year that passed local office inspection for change of bodystyle. Was not considered "radically altered", passed on points, retained original registration.
Secondly, Fred's Transit was a factory approved LWB special, and shows the correct VIN on the logbook.
edit for appaling spelling.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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SOC , yup, and that will continue to happen. ! The rules are issued by DVLA Swansea Policy Department but are interpreted at Local Office level. Each inspection is only as good as the knowledge of the inspector and none of them are technically trained. The Mini should have gone for BIVA following the rules applied correctly. I can contact the head of DVLA policy and confirm that fact if required , the owner got 'lucky'. Quite how that decision would be treated further down the line is the concern . After all the decision on the Bentley was reversed after 7 years road use. Following the Consultation document of 5 years ago we were meant to have a level playing field with the rules being applied the same at each office. The problems with knowing what can and can't be done ,and the consistent application of the rules is purely down to DVLA Personally I feel they owe everyone an amnesty , and a fresh start ,but I can't see that happening . Fredtransit didn't give the full background and I based my answer on the facts given here ie chassis underneath it isn't a Mk 2 one ,nothing about it being a factory built order . That's why we at ACE prefer to talk about each vehicle individually in full detail because the smallest thing can swing it from one set of DVLA regs to another. For instance your Austin, body chopped about to hell , no problems retaining original plate because it is a chassied vehicle, do that on a monococque ( or even the simplest roof chop as shown by Andy Saunders Bentley ) and you are up for BIVA. In my replies here I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible as for many it is difficult to see how various things interlink .If anyone has queries relating to a specific vehicle and modifications please contact us direct at www.the-ace.org.uk.
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Yep, the DVLA description of the transit is as seen in real life. There is no DVLA/V5 description for the van, just model number, and in the 190 chassis cab there were not two but three sizes, the regular LWB, Ford's extended XLWB, and then the professional XXLWB, extended on license (I have the Ford sales brochures). The VIN has never been changed, and does not have to be, it matches the V5 and the vehicle, cos it's always been that way, since 1985. If I was to become a headless chicken, I would open a VERY large can of worms (knowing the history of the vehicle, which is 'documented' on maker's plates attached to the cab steps) if I contacted VOSA about the test status. I know ignorance is no excuse, but ignorance is also bliss. It's all academic in may case though as the van was altered in 1985 and has passed test since it was three. End of. Mine could be a classic example of giving too much information. I could run off to VOSA, tell them I have an extended chassis van, and be out of work within a week. It's not unsafe, is on the road legally and is doing nobody any harm. I also have a good mate with an amateur XXLWB, made of two LWB ford chassis. It was tested four months ago, and stopped at a VOSA roadside check two weeks ago. Both went without incident. He's running about in it today. Now, we both know it's not as it left Ford, and unlike mine was not done early in it's life. Again he could run off to VOSA, and up in a very big mess, not to mention our of work!
I do think it should be said that, owners should take some time and thought before involving VOSA or any other professional other than the MOT inspector. Rules are fine, but they seem to mostly affect those who follow them! If I wanted to run something illegally, I would and would not care which laws I was breaking.
By all means build a car to IVA standard, but leave it there. Deal with it when it happens, don't make it happen and have to deal with a whole lot more.
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BTW my post hit after ace's, so I have to add this. Strictly speaking from what you are saying the van would not have sufficient points. The chassis is not Ford, and was a special order done outside the factory, I don't know if the license bit is relevant. Some examiner could just say it's not Ford, and is modified. Added to that it's been converted to a 5 speed (again not on the V5, a manual is a manual) and had a later axle fitted too (from a Mk4, but barely detectable). I am talking about one vehicle, and if the conversation was with VOSA I would be up to my neck in it! it's still a legal vehicle, yet if I was to talk to certain professionals about it I would only have myself to blame if it was taken off the road.
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Jul 28, 2009 10:09:51 GMT
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That's part of why ACE is in existence Fred, to help clarify the rules / laws and situation with any vehicle without having to speak to Government departments. It allows the owner to realise his legal position and deal with it from an informed point of view.
Just to clarify though, VOSA and DVLA are 2 seperate departments of DfT ( Department for Transport ) with seperate roles . VOSA is for safety and compliance, DVLA for registration and licensing.
It is the 'informed ' bit that we keep pushing. There has been much recent scaremongering resulting in Government departments being contacted needlessly .
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Last Edit: Jul 28, 2009 10:13:24 GMT by kapri
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Jul 28, 2009 20:04:24 GMT
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Agreed, I don't think anybody should contact VOSA about mods at all. Go with the MOT and if it passes keep schtum!
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