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Mar 16, 2010 19:40:32 GMT
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with an electric sprayer I'd stick with 1K or celly. It doesn't go on that smooth (IME, YMMV) so you want a paint type which is easy to sand. Celly / 1K sands easy
2K has the advantage you can use retarders to help it flow out but to get a proper flake lay down you either need to use 1K/celly lacquer or a special intercoat clear or flake carrier ans then use a 2K clear on top. If you apply 2K clear deep enough to bury flake it often splits and delaminates, hense needing special flake carrying materials.
This is another reason why flake jobs from "production" shops often have very low flake coverage (and look curse word)
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Nov 15, 2010 21:58:52 GMT
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stupid question, whats spray stopper?
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Nov 16, 2010 22:31:24 GMT
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its a spray on polyster (usually) based filler, much easier to sand than regular filler and also (unlike regualr filler) designed to be used over paint. regular filler is supposed to be used on bare metal only.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Nov 17, 2010 12:14:02 GMT
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so its what halfords class as filler primer then basically?
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Nov 17, 2010 13:39:05 GMT
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its "goopier" than that - Halfords do one in a rattle can that I have never got on with because it always stays too soft to sand. Or it does for me. Maybe I don't give it long enough to cure. But the cure time must be like 2 days or something!
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2010 13:39:32 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Nov 17, 2010 14:30:30 GMT
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got ya so in principle the same thing (I'm looking at the right product) but usuall curse word halfords spray!  Cheers for the info Chris |
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OK - a long time since this thread was active, but here goes.
I don't know if Ali still monitors the thread (hope so) but my needs may be different to everyone elses here.
Basically, I am renovating a 1958 Standard 10, it's black, with a load of sub paint surface rust.
This rust looks to be either tree sap damage, or dropped tree fruit damage, and has resulted in a host, and I mean a host, of 50p size blemishes which has gone through the paint and created rust spots. This rust is just a bloom underneath the paint, it has barely penetrated the paint, I have sanded numerous spots back to bare metal and the metal is sound. I need to do a total respray, so I think that all the paint needs to be removed, and taken to bare metal. I have used a Scotchbrite type of pad in my angle grinder which makes short work of the paint surface, but would take some time to do the whole car like this.
Any advice?
George
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when in doubt drop me a PM. Oh, you did  Frost sells stripping discs which will probably make a quicker job of stripping back your old paint. HEREPrice is nice too. I've only used them for small areas so far. In the past I have used a 6" or 9" 80 grit sanding disc but these can generate heat and warp metal on flat unsupported panels (roofs, bonnets) and can leave quite deep scratch marks in the metal which need a decent primer-filler or even stopper to totally get rid of. |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Alistair - thanks for the prompt reply.
I used 1 Scotchbrite type pad to strip a wing - it worked great - no heat build up - no warping, probably because the disk is mainly air space ;D
I have resigned myself to a laborious job of scotchbriting the whole car back to bare metal, then following this thread from the beginning again to get a good paint surface.
I again want to thank you for the prompt reply, and I will keep the forum posted as to the progress of the Standard 10
George
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Last Edit: Mar 3, 2011 22:02:51 GMT by george356
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dazcapri
North East
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,061
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george356 check out the guy on here with the thames van kevbarlas he's bin stripping the paint on his van it'll prob's be helpful to you
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Mk3 Capri LS
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george356 check out the guy on here with the thames van kevbarlas he's bin stripping the paint on his van it'll prob's be helpful to you Thanks for the heads up Daz - I have nothing but admiration for that guys skill, dedication and bravery in taking on a resto on a vehicle that far down the road to the great scrappy in the sky. I have used a polydisk stripper like he finally settled on, and I think I will stick with it to do the rest of the car. George |
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Hey, added first bit of paint to the Galant (you may have seen) need to be a little more careful with the prep, i just did the door shut so have time to play with... Couple of quizical questions if I may. How do I know, or have a good idea I have put on enough clear coat coats and also can i add MORE clear coat layers after a good period of time, ie 24hrs.??  Thanks! I'm soooo psyched to have some paint on this car! Feels gooooood Chris |
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Mar 10, 2011 19:43:59 GMT
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when in doubt drop me a PM. Oh, you did Frost sells stripping discs which will probably make a quicker job of stripping back your old paint. HEREPrice is nice too. I've only used them for small areas so far. In the past I have used a 6" or 9" 80 grit sanding disc but these can generate heat and warp metal on flat unsupported panels (roofs, bonnets) and can leave quite deep scratch marks in the metal which need a decent primer-filler or even stopper to totally get rid of. As mentioned these can do more damage than good, definatly needs a softly softly approach. To be honest I only used these when I was at my previous job (restoring vws) on extreme cases, stuff lashed with household paint etc! 80 grit on a D/A is usally the way to go. Just a couple more things I picked up on from skim reading this thread Ford China Blue should be Ford China Blue whether you buy it from ICI, PPG, DuPont, Max Meyer, API, etc. A match is only as good as the guy operating the mixing machine though. One local company (now deceased) mixed me some grey that was green it was that far off. You can get slight tonal and finish differences if you use different materials such as 2pack winfg on a car you apinted in celly, but other than that so long as the mathc is right you are OK. A word of warning is that the older celly colours have a lot more variation in them as there was no ISO for paint colour back then, so a 1960s BMC blue might vary a bit if its celly from brand to brand. Not exactly true, there can be multiple shades on one colour code. Particularly on modern cars you will find if you look at some colour chips or a modern mixing scheme there will be a "standard" shade and then variations usually listed as "+B" for a slightly bluer shade etc As well as a good match smart application helps for a un-noticable repair. For example if you need to paint a bonnet you will get away with painting just the bonnet as the wings slope sharply away. However if your painting or a door where its a big flat area that can be viewed with O/G paint either side you are going to see a difference in colour no matter how good the match is. This is where, if your using basecoat and lacquer you can blend the colour into the adjacent panels. Don't get excited thinking you need HVLP either. It uses more air (works the compressor harder and canlead to atomisation problems if your compressor isn't up to it) and the finish isn;t actually as good as with a good od school High Pressur egun, however everyone in the trade use HVLP because it means less overspray (less wasted paint and therefor better proffit) also for environmental reasons.. Its all due to environmental reasons. The Environmental Protection Act introduced a material transfer percentage that killed off pretty much everything except HVLP. It was basically a rule stating that out of 100% material in your cup X% had to end up on the panel and not lost into the air. Can't remember the figures cause I'm a tin basher not a paint fairy and I'm not that geeky! You can now also get LVLP. I think the two key points that need to be stressed are Celly can use problems with reactions with the old paint, and barcoat is not a perfect solution. It's a weird product as you have to let it cure fully and cannot key it, makes me question how good the adhesion is. And the most important once is, 2 Pack is NASTY NASTY NASTY stuff and can terminally screw you up. This thread makes for unpleasant reading, its involving a DIYer with proper mask and extraction and 2K. www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14051And a brief note on bodyshop selection, it is always a good idea to go somewhere that comes reccomended and to have a good talk and inspection of previous work before handing over your car and your cash. However people shouldn't write off modern bodyshops as we are not all bodgers that leave as and when cars to rust. Some of us might even own a classic, or two, or served their apprenticships restoring classics, and can fabricate panels, and have qualifications in MIG and TIG welding, and can lead load. As for "inbetween jobs" projects, they don't always turn out bad www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=183874814982268&id=142032325833184&aid=30954 |
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Mar 10, 2011 20:45:18 GMT
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Yeah, I didn't want to get into the multiples of variations on one colour, working on the basis that if you are doing a repair or a partial paint you'd get it properly matched anyway and on a full respray its no biggie if your original yellow was tinted with some white and your respray is in the "pure" yellow.
I've had bad matches from cheapo paint shops. A shade of blue which was actually green.
And yeah, 2K is evil stuff, needs to be treated with respect. And appropriate safety gear. The big thing with it is that it is a cumulative poison - it builds up in your system. Then you get sick. Very sick.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I am just starting to price up the paint I need to respray my golf.
I am painting it with a polyester basecoat and then 2k clear, But I'm not sure what primer I can use.
I have a 5 litre tin of cellulose primer and a 5 litre tin of grey oxide primer.Would either of these be alright to use or would I get a reaction.
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I would use a 2K high build primer personally. There are some great ones on the market. I'd stick with one brand through the whole job to avoid possible complications.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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75nut
Part of things
Posts: 512
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Jul 12, 2011 11:58:37 GMT
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Apologies if an yof this has already been asked, but I have my MGB to spray.
I decent size compressor and the lines, mositure trap, gun and lines, so the expression "all the gear and no idea" is spot on lol!
It has had several different paints over time, so do I need to spray something down to sptop reaction, if so what?
Don't have full on breathing gear so I need cellulose yes?
And when keying and flatting the primer witohut water what grade do you use that does not clog?
Used cans lots of times and followed a , zinc prime, filler prime, normal grey prime, colour,laquer order with a 1200,1500,2000 then compound polishing process.
But always flatted the colour back beofre adding laquer, notice here at the beginning of thread you did not when using the celly colour?
Many thanks!
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90 Alfa 75 3.0 V6 Cloverleaf
79 MGB Roadster
88 Saab 900i Convertible
94 MK1 MX5 1.6
05 Volvo V70
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Jul 13, 2011 14:06:57 GMT
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what colour is it going to be? ie metallic, pearl, solid, matt...
If its had a few paint jobs IMO you want to sand it back pretty hard to stop the paint getting too thick on it.
You can get a bunch of isolators or sealers which cut down on the risk of reaction. If the paint is really old then it shouldn't be a problem anyway. If you use a good 2K primer (non isocyanate one) then that should seal the old paint anyway and be a great base to paint on.
My preference is for a solvent basecoat and a 1K clear - if you have breathing gear, or good solvent mask designed for the job you may want to use a 2K clear as it is harder wearing.
You don't flat back any metallic basecoats really as you will expose and damage the metallic flakes. The idea is to get the primer as smooth as possible by sanding (ideally dry but some people still like wet sanding) then just put enough basecoat on to cover and give even colour and go straight over that with the clear/lacquer.
Put "plenty" of clear/lacquer on and then you can sand and polish that.
choice of primers depend on what you are painting on top of. Bare metal needs different handling than if you are just sanding down an existing paint job on the car and going over that.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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75nut
Part of things
Posts: 512
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Jul 14, 2011 15:21:08 GMT
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Thanks for the reply mate!
Its going to be a solid colour (dark red).
I don't have any breathing gear more full on than a halfords painting mask with the filters on the side.
Some areas are bare metal and some have paint and the paint is very old.
Cheers
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90 Alfa 75 3.0 V6 Cloverleaf
79 MGB Roadster
88 Saab 900i Convertible
94 MK1 MX5 1.6
05 Volvo V70
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I still reckon celly is worth using. Its old school like the cars we use it on. It has its problems, it can react and it needs more care to prevent fading and so forth but its just "period correct" you know...
I would either...
Strip as much of the old paint as I could, rough up the bare metal with a P80 or P120 grit to give it some tooth and use zinc rich then red oxide primer on the bare metal. Optionally I might put a light coat or two of Reface on it to fill defects and also it acts as an isolator. I'd use a celly high build (UPol did a nice one last time I bought some) and put a few good coats of that on. Guide coat that thoroughly and let it rest a few days before sanding and getting the defects out, repriming if necessary. Then rest it again. Resting is important not to trap solvent. Then I'd put several coats of celly colour on it, maybe 6 or 7 of increasing wetness. (ie more thinner in the later coats). Then again, rest it for a week or maybe more before giving it a thorough cut & polish with 1500, 2000, 3000, compound (1200 only if needed). And that should give you a real old fashioned deep celly shine. Don't wax it for like 90 days.
or
sand back the existing paint as bast you can to provide a stable substrate. The bare metal areas I'd treat as before. Depending on how rough the finish looked after this I'd either lightly use Reface or I'd go on with something like Lechler TI Green which is a primer/filler - its a 2K product but non isocyanate. Normal "good ventilation" and so forth applies. again, guide coat and allow to cure thoroughly before sanding to get it perfect.
on top of this you can either apply a dark red basecoat and finish with a clear lacquer although for a solid colour this may be overkill, but it gives a nice "sparkly" finish which you don't really get with a direct gloss like celly or 2K. Your clear can be 1K which is safe to spray but has similar issues to celly paint. Or you could ensure you have good ventilation and get a suitable fume mask and spray a 2K clear onto it. You can get non-isocyanate clears - Autosafe or something is one brand name - but these need either to be baked in an oven to cure or need to be used in hot weather. Check with the product sheet on these. 2 - 3 coats of base followed by 5 - 6 or so coats if its 1K lacquer or about 3 coats if its 2K clear
Final option on the Lechler Ti Green base is to use a 2K direct gloss. This is going to give a very bright finish, many people don't think its right for a classic car, and with reds it can look a bit plastic IMO. Works OK on greys, black, white, and dark blue dark green colours. You need a proper solvent fume mask for 2K, you need eye goggles and good ventilation. you probably would only need 3 full coats.
if old paint is solid and stable its a great base to paint over.
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Last Edit: Jul 15, 2011 8:52:59 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Thanks! I'm soooo psyched to have some paint on this car! Feels gooooood
