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Hi all I have been thinking about my estelle's power plant. I really really like the idea of running a bike engine. I don't want to do the normal thing and cut out the rear seats and mid mount it because i have kids and actually want to keep th rear seats, and i also don't want to cut the car up. I can't run it in the rear mounted possition and use the chain drive because it will turn the rear wheels backwards, and i would need to make some crazy reversing gear box... so...........i thought.......... i keep the standard estelle box in the back, and mate the drive sprocket on the bike engine & box to the clutch input shaft on the gear box, running the bike engine longditudinally. I could then leave the bike box in say 4th or 5th gear and use the estelle box giving me 5 speeds and reverse, and use the bike clutch. Or i could use the bike box for crash sequential on a track or like! I can't in theory see a problem, but any input would be greatly appreciated. Ps. I love the polo in this months PPC!.. it is what got me thinking here are some bike engined cars for your troubles.....     ta lewis |
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,448
Club RR Member Number: 48
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i can't help you with your problem, but this: is powered by a 600 or 900cc daihatsu turbo engine  Still cool tho ;D |
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Isn't an Estelle a bit on the big side for a bike engine?
How about mounting the bike output to a Sierra diff (or similar) mounted upside down via a cush drive and using the bike box?
*n
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Top grammar tips!
Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated
Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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This guy www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67225276Runs a Hayabusa engine in a starlet with a similar arrangement. The drive sprocket from the bike gearbox was replaced with a flange and drive shaft which runs into the original gearbox input shaft. The car 'box is left in 4th gear (1:1 ratio) using the bike 'box for forward gears and the car 'box for reverse.  You are proposing the opposite? Leaving the bike 'box in the 1:1 ratio and using car gears, yes? |
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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too heavy I'm afraid unless you want to turbocharge the bike lump . the polo in ppc is well over 600kg and will be screaming its brains out at 90mph. ive run a single bike engine for a while in a sub 500kg car and it still has issues with low gearing needing 10mph/1000rpm in top to get the best performance from it wich means 7k at 70 so you cant go very far before your ears bleed .they do sound well but need to be in a mega light car to get the best from them
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how much does a skoda weigh? cant see much point keeping the rear seats, if you got 4 people in it, it wont move with a bike engine in it.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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The Doctor - Doh! blame google images! As for weight, i am not really sure, My guess would be 600 kg without the engine but a basic 4 seet interior. The other option would be to, say use the bike box's 3rd gear for accelleration, and it's top gear for motorways to allow really good acceleration, but a livable cruise. Thanks for the thoughts so far though! |
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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autodata says 830kg
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well lets say with a bike engine and some fettling that could be bought down to 700kg, it might work, although there is not a whole lot to actually take out of the bloody thing!
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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you will probably be adding weight if you take the skoda engine out and fit a 4 cyl bike engine. the older bike engines cbr,zx10 etc are around the 90kg
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Surely the weight issue comes down to engine choice? The TL1000 motor Froggy is talking about is (although a V-Twin) not that torquey with on 70 odd ft lbs and a 1000cc 4 cylinder sports bike will be even worse. You would need to look towards a sports-touring bike or even a big twin. Using the FJR1300 and comparing it to the Skoda Rapid (couldn't find torque figures for the Estelle) it doesn't look too bad. The FJR beats the Rapids torque with 72 ft lbs at 3000 RPM (compared to the Skoda's max of 66 at 3500) and go on to peak at 90 ft lbs at 6700 RPM. HP is a similar story, the FJR is pushing 85hp at 5200rpm compared to the Skoda's peak of 58 at 5200rpm. Peak for the bike is 127hp at 7800rpm. Looks like more than enough to pull the stock gearing but relies on how much headroom there is for all those extra revs. Bigger bikes also bring shaft drives which makes gearbox connections easier. FJR Shaft Drive Cutaway  |
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why would you go to all the bother of swopping in an expensive to maintian bike engine with power outputs the same as your car engine? even if its making three times the BHP at high revs than the skoda engine does, if its only making the same torque its not gonna go any better in the real world out on the road unless you cane the nuts out of it everywhere.
for the amount of work involved your better off fitting a tuned VW aircooled lump (and i hate them as well!)
bike engines don't work well in road cars, track only lightweight jobbies is a different world to how you need a road car to work.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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gearoil
Part of things
Projectless...
Posts: 918
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lewis123, take a jaunt to your nearest Autograss meeting, you will find plenty of bike and twin bike engined cars there and should leave you with plenty of ideas on how to do the Skoda.
Cheers.
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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i sort of agree with p u t hence why ive gone for twin engines  |
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Last Edit: Oct 2, 2008 16:59:37 GMT by froggy
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Buy James' GTti and fit that engine *n |
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Top grammar tips!
Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated
Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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jikovron
Part of things
mechanical chaos
Posts: 633
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i'd say it would be rather infuriating to drive in town ,,,ie no pulling power below hi revs (i'd look at a honda goldwing motor if i was doing it) (a skoda 120 weighs 450kg as a body shell as i found out with a hoist and a hd set of scales,,,900kg kerb weight(its light because it has nothing like PAS/central locking/power steering/aircon/any heavy trim,,,,,,,,most of the weight is in the body shell) gross weight (full of people and luggage) of 1350kg then add that to massive traction (that would be abit much for a bike clutch in terms off inertia) did you not recommend a subaru flat four for mine (that would be impressive and far more capable ,,,,,,,, if i was to fit a bike motor I'd machine the gearbox off the engine and make a face plate to match the estelle bellhousing (plus mess about with clutch stuff ) whatever gets fitted i'm sure it'll be rather rapid  |
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Porsche 911 engine and box, save all the fookin about and make the conversion worth the effort, as much power as you can afford and everythings in the right place.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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all fully valid and good points thanks!
The thought process behind this all was....
I don't like beetles and would rather not put VW running gear anywhere near my skud!
I havn't looked hard yet, but i sudder to think how much a porsche engine and box would cost.
I would love a skooby engine and some form of box to take it (would most likely have to be a bus box) but i am pritty sure i wouldn't be able to afford it.
I was going with audi stuff converted to run backwards, but apparently it is no where near as easy as i thought it would be!
It would be nice to keep the stock skoda box, but it can't take much torque so the bike engined popped to mind.
My last idea was to take an audi transaxle, and fit a honda vtec lump, but would the gearbox undo itself, being run backwards (as i understand it, most honda vtecs run 'backwards' and so the audi box would not need to be modified!)??
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Running a gearbox backwards would end badly - they have oil pumps and scroll seals and such, that all rely on it spinning one way most of the time.
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you may not like beetles, but a bug box and tuned lump is possible your cheapest, easiest and sensible solution. It could even be done fairly cheaply, depending on what power you want and whether you buy new or used
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