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Jun 30, 2008 13:49:21 GMT
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What’s the matter with the motor trade? …and NO, this is NOT a rant about bad workmanship, nor their honesty or decency! Firstly I would like to state 99.9% of garages ARE honest decent and hardworking but … …there seems to be a growing trend amongst a lot of them. That trend seems to be the reluctance to work on anything that could be deemed an ‘Enthusiasts car’ or ‘vehicle of interest’. For some strange reason a lot of the trade appears (or so it seems round where I live) to be more interested in dealing with mid to late 90’s battered and dirty ‘bread and butter’ fodder of which the owner couldn’t give a monkey about. If said enthusiast brings a car that is well presented and clean etc. one would think the garage would appreciate it yet the general response seems to be of wariness and a ‘shy away from it’. Recent cases in my adjacent street have brought this to light: Firstly a chap round the road from me has a Series 2 Rapier and …a Mitsubishi XWZ Thingamizig (One of those things with a gapping hole in the bonnet and a surfboard on the boot ;D ). He knows very little about cars but as you can see from what he’s got he likes vehicles –new and old. As he has only moved into the area he doesn’t know anybody – and due to walking past my house on a couple of occasions and seeing me messing with my ‘tat’ he has got talking. Apparently he enquired at a couple of local garages in my town about them looking after/maintaining/’taking under their wing’ his cars. The response was …Mitsubishi Evo – “Oh no sir it’s too new and complicated/specialist” fair enough I thought but as for the Sunbeam - “Oh no sir it’s to old blah, blah” ! What on earth do they want! Secondly I’m also looking after a 1979 MG Midget for a lady down the road because another local garage couldn’t –and I quote - “sort out the Twin Carburettors” !!! I just don’t get it, here are people who look after their cars and would appreciate garages/mechanics yet seem to be shunned by them. Yet said garages will happily work on people’s battered/dirty saloons – which as I said earlier the owners don’t give a monkey and don’t really appreciate motor mechanics/trade. I’m confused – This is Britain and the amount of enthusiast cars about (new and old) must be at an all time high – just look at the amount of car shows there are about nowadays! As I have said this is NOT a criticism of the motor trades workmanship and I apologise now to any motor mechanics on this forum who are happy to work on all sorts of vehicles (classic or otherwise); I also respect people have a living to make. Thoughts?
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jun 30, 2008 13:56:43 GMT
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Parts are easy to source and a big ol margin can be applied to the parts for the garage. It's all about money for the majority of places. I'm guessing that bread and butter 90's repmobiles is where the money is at.
Tbh something like a rapier, with difficult (for non specialists) parts supply and some repairs having to be done with outside of the box thinking will probably be just too much a hassle for a mainstream garage.
You gotta remember that a lot of employees at garages don't actually enjoy working on cars anymore, at least the guys i know working at dealership service bays don't anymore.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Jun 30, 2008 13:58:14 GMT
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Most of em cant be arsed with trying to find the parts and tech specs for older cars, plus if they have no experianced older guys its very easy to make a mistake thats costs them time and money because you cant plug a diagnostic computer into an old classic and find out whats wrong instantly, you have to work through a list or know which cars suffer from what problems, a lot of mechanics are more like fitters these days.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jun 30, 2008 14:00:15 GMT
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Yup. Too much hassle equals turn it away. My local tyre place isn't happy fitting tyres to my 2CV because it isn't listed in their chart for the torque wrench settings when refitting the wheel nuts. Actually, I still owe them a tenner. That's another reason that they don't like me!
You can see their point though. Working on a car they don't know or understand will take time. And when they hit you with a huge labour rate which also covers their research time, you're going to kick off and say "I'll never come back!" So why bother in the first place?
Problem is, the older type places with the necessary experience are getting harder and harder to find. How many mechanics actually know how to service a distributor or adjust a carburettor these days?
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jun 30, 2008 14:02:51 GMT
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That's the cool thing, around potters bar there's a surprising ammount of old skool mechanics. Which is very useful, being in Bournemouth.
I just hope some of the younger guys might just pick up some of the knowledge.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Jun 30, 2008 14:15:54 GMT
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Young mechanics are, for the most part, trained as parts-changers. Over here, if it is older than 2000, it's tough to find a garage to do ANY work. Doesn't concern me, since I've always maintained my own vehicles, but I dislike the way knowledge is being lost . The most talented mechanic I know is a friend of mine who dropped out of school at 16 and has been working as a tech for nearly 15 years now. He started at the most dodgy shops because nobody would hire someone without a diploma, but it's paid off as he's the most intuitive mechanic I've ever seen. 60 year old car or 6 day old car...he knows them inside and out. Carbs, EFI, diesel, CIS, you name it. We had a co-op student at the shop recently who took GREAT offense at having to work on a customer's 69 Cadillac convertible (on bags...AWESOME car to cruise in). It was all my buddy (the owner of the shop) could do not to slap him senseless.
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1982 VW Rabbit 4-door (apart) 1992 Passat Wagon Syncro (daily)
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Jun 30, 2008 14:15:59 GMT
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I think it takes a while to find the decent places, but they are out there.
I've had some irritating experiences with garages that are only really interested in doing quick fixes: Impressing upon them that I want a proper job, not just a fix to get the next 12 months ticket is hard work, but ultimately it's their loss because I won't go back.
I've a selection of folk now who I would use for older grot... obviously the DaveRapid retro heaven is not far away, but I also have an old fella does bits & bobs for me now and again, he has a proper 'old shack' place rammed full of tat and can diagnose most things by smell & sound. How long he'll keep going for I don't know, now that most stuff needs expensive diagnostic equipment, I guess he'll just go 'till he's no more customers.
Also a local 'clean' garage has a surprisingly good attitude, the boss there is a really good egg: Usually greets me with some mild ribbing along the "What pile of old wibblepoo have you brought me this time", but he's always keen to get stuck in and gives older stuff his personal attention (the younger lads he has wouldn't know what a carb was, and certainly got flummoxed when I presented them a starting handle!). Quite unusual for a large, new-unit type concern but pleasing nontheless. I think he just enjoys a change from nightmareish Mondeo clutch changes and kippered Rover headgaskets.
Tyre & exhaust places can be a ball-ache too, but luckily my brother in law is a branch manager for National Tyres, so that makes life -alot- easier.
So they are out there, just got to do some digging.
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Jun 30, 2008 14:16:16 GMT
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Unfortunately I don't suppose they will Tigran. I'm pretty sure most mechanical courses at colleges now are all based on blooming diagnostic machines so, as someone else mentioned, it's easier to plug a computer in and find the fault immediately. Luckily my local garage will mend almost anything, one noteable exception being anything French with green blood!
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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Jun 30, 2008 14:17:25 GMT
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a lot of mechanics are more like fitters these days. Exactly that. They just chuck parts at them til the problem goes away - no diagnosing of faults apart from seeing what the computer says. Smaller specialist garages seem to be much better, but the big stealerships aren't worth bothering with, IMO.
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Jun 30, 2008 14:24:40 GMT
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Rusty nuts & bolts, cross threaded bodges you name it. A simple job becomes a nightmare quite often & to be honest would you want to pay someone for a 4 hour job that really took them 10?
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Resident Toyota Geek Current Fleet: HDJ81 Landcruiser, GZ20 Soarer, JZX81 Cresta
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Odin
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,406
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Jun 30, 2008 15:24:03 GMT
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Luckily the local place we use for MOTs and the like is a really old-skool tin barn affair with a couple of four post lifts crammed in and all sorts of tat piled up around. The office is a cupboard with a phone in, although since the MOT computerisation they've had to get a computer. They don't like it though. ;D
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Last Edit: Jun 30, 2008 15:24:33 GMT by Odin
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miaspa
Part of things
Posts: 829
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Jun 30, 2008 17:16:09 GMT
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One of the girls at work was telling me her husband was going to do some full time course in September for two years to retrain as a Mechanic, he got exempted the first year as he services all his own cars and passed the first year exam on that knowledge.
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Found my flashing Pao again.
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herman
Part of things
Posts: 28
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Jun 30, 2008 17:38:08 GMT
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Miaspa - I don't suppose you could do me a favour and find out the name of the qualification this guy is going to do?
(I'm thinking about retraining too, but the only courses my local colleges offer seem far too basic.)
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Mini Clubman VTEC Sierra V6 Cosworth
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Jun 30, 2008 18:25:33 GMT
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Sounds like a gap in the market here.When i was a kid my parents started collecting these books called "Car fix it" and its full of old school stuff in there i've been reading them on and off ever since.Might have to get myself a unit
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Jun 30, 2008 19:13:41 GMT
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One of the girls at work was telling me her husband was going to do some full time course in September for two years to retrain as a Mechanic, he got exempted the first year as he services all his own cars and passed the first year exam on that knowledge. What are people's opinions on courses like this? That is to say: I'm doing motorsport engineering at college but I still want to get to know the basics a bit better. I get the feeling that the best way to do this is to buy an old snotter and pull it apart and poke bits until I know how they work, am I right?
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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Jun 30, 2008 19:18:31 GMT
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Luckily the local place we use for MOTs and the like is a really old-skool tin barn affair with a couple of four post lifts crammed in and all sorts of tat piled up around. The office is a cupboard with a phone in, although since the MOT computerisation they've had to get a computer. They don't like it though. ;D Where abouts is that chap?Local?
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Jun 30, 2008 19:29:04 GMT
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the trade is in a bit of a slump at the moment my place is ticking along purely due to the mot work we do for other garages. none of my mechanics are old enough to have worked on old stuff so i do it myself but the reality is most people with older stuff do their own repairs and only come to me when they need to use some kit that they don't have at home ie bearing press or oxy acteylene torch.
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Jun 30, 2008 19:53:46 GMT
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i have a real dislike for garages.
My modern (07 civic) ate its CV joints. It had that un-mistakeable clicking on full lock. I took it to the local dealer, they had it for the day, when i went back they said that it wasn't the CV joints, it was the brake pads moving the calipers. Total rubbish. I asked to take out the guy who worked on it, so i pulled out of the car park, click click click went the CVs. He goes, "o yeah that is the CVs isn't it, i didn't notice that earlier"
what an idiot!
then recently i was helping a mate change the springs on his BM, we realised that we couldn't get to the top nut (due to HUGE dish/recess) so we put the compressors on, (not tight) and took it to a local garage to get them to buzz the nuts off. He says 'I hate these type of spring compressors, they can fail really easily'. He then proceeded to do one side up FULLY before the other so the compressor was just hanging on. (me and my mate were slowly edging away from him). Of course the compressors can fail if you do that with them! what a fool!
I also had kwik fit tell me once that they wouldn't take the wheel nuts off a friends car because they were stuck!
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Jun 30, 2008 20:21:16 GMT
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:)I don't claim to be perfect, but threads like this make me quite proud of what we do at the garage I run.
In the last fortnight we've had in our workshops a 1990 Bently Turbo R, several classic Skodas that aren't mine, an Australian spec 60's VW Combi, a W123 Merc, a Triumph Vitesse, and a 1965 Oldsmobile Tornado. We've also had countless 90's and noughties family hacks, and several very late cars in.
I've been trying for the last year [at very nearly the cost of my marriage] to build up what was a dead garage and am pleased to say it's doing well. I have not yet turned a single job away. To be honest there have been some jobs I pobably should have turned away!
Sorry if this sounds like an advert, but reading this thread made me realise that what I do isn't quite normal! ;D
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Jun 30, 2008 20:22:41 GMT
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Smaller specialist garages seem to be much better, but the big stealerships aren't worth bothering with, IMO. The main dealer will be the only option soon (obviously referring to newer stuff)... I'm a trained mechanic, have been spannering since 1989 and still do a bit (if/when I have to ... problem is on modern stuff like (say) a new Audi, you can't even change the rear brake pads without the diagnostic software these days. CANbus will be the demise of the trade and most of it is totally unneccessary.
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1984 Mk2 Fiesta XR2 - Stored 1990 XR3i SE500 Cabrio - Project 1990 Mk4 Escort estate 1.3L - Daily drive/For Sale
...more to follow!
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