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you should not have to bleed the brakes after changing the reservoir to cylinder hoses, do it with the brake pedal pressed down, when it's all re-connected half fill the reservoir, let the pedal go and it should push any air in the reservoir to cylinder pipe back into the reservoir.
The hose needs to be EPDM, as you say I would do away with any steel pipes and just do it all in EPDM saves 2 joints to leak.
While you don't need to disturb them for this job if the bleed nipples are rusted up the fluid probably has not been changed for years, not ideal on a 150 mph 2 ton projectile! to get ahead of the game I would try cleaning them up soaking in penetrating oil regularly and fitting rubber caps.
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you should not have to bleed the brakes after changing the reservoir to cylinder hoses, do it with the brake pedal pressed down, when it's all re-connected half fill the reservoir, let the pedal go and it should push any air in the reservoir to cylinder pipe back into the reservoir. The hose needs to be EPDM, as you say I would do away with any steel pipes and just do it all in EPDM saves 2 joints to leak. While you don't need to disturb them for this job if the bleed nipples are rusted up the fluid probably has not been changed for years, not ideal on a 150 mph 2 ton projectile! to get ahead of the game I would try cleaning them up soaking in penetrating oil regularly and fitting rubber caps. Good call on doing that with the pedal depressed...never thought of that. Obvious now you've said it. The brakes will be getting a going over soon anyway (have new front discs and pads getting in the way in the garage waiting to be fitted), but doesn't make me any less apprehensive about disturbing the rears! None of them look in bad shape at least.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Yesterday I had a few things turn up in the post. In here we have: [] 1/4" EPDM hose to replace the leaky brake fluid reservoir to master cylinder lines on the Jag. [] Afterburner Heater Control kit for the van - Which is covered in the thread for that vehicle over here[] A Series 1 Ford Ka dash clock just because I've always liked the design and I stumbled across one on eBay for £0.99 and fancy sticking one in a nice little case to put on my desk. Our first task was to do the brake feed line on the Jag as it seemed a pretty simple job. This is the overcomplicated mess that was on the Jag when I started out. Small stubs of hose coming off the reservoir (I don't imagine the orange hoses are original), which then feed onto steel lines, before jumping to fabric braided hoses (which do look original) which connect on to the stubs on the master cylinder itself. Looking closer the hose ends being the source of the leak was evidenced by the fact there was brake fluid running down the cable ties which I'd used to help stem the leaks a few days ago. My intention was to do away with the metal lines entirely here. Too many unnecessary joints. There are eight potential points of failure here rather than four. So this lot came out. With that destined for the bin (figuratively speaking...those metal lines will be cleaned up and definitely stuffed into the "box of potentially useful things" for future use), this is what replaced it. I've sleeved the one where it's just sitting on the air cleaner housing since the photo was taken, I don't think it's likely to be a problem, but best to be sure. Why Jaguar didn't just do this originally rather than messing about with those metal lines I've no idea. So far "because Jaguar" is the best I've got! While it's obviously not, I think this looks a lot more "stock" than it did. Interestingly given that this didn't involve actually interfering with the brake system (I had the pedal held down while the hoses were changed), suddenly the car brakes a lot more evenly! It's always had quite a pull to the left on braking since I picked it up...but now it does it far less! So yeah...a full system bleed through definitely needs to happen sooner rather than later. That was a relatively simple job, only made slightly profanity inducing because of the master cylinder being buried under that brace.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Is the brake bleeding straightforward (barring any seized bits) on the XJS?
On my P38 it's a real old song a dance. Not difficult, just very long winded, thanks to ABS and traction control!
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Jun 10, 2020 10:06:52 GMT
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I wonder if Jaguar originally fitted the steel lines because of concern over engine heat-soak...
I guess you could always wrap the new hoses in heat-resistant cladding if it causes any such issues.
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Jun 10, 2020 11:56:12 GMT
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Wont be an issue - those lines are the feed lines, not the pressure side.
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Jun 10, 2020 12:44:19 GMT
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Is the brake bleeding straightforward (barring any seized bits) on the XJS? On my P38 it's a real old song a dance. Not difficult, just very long winded, thanks to ABS and traction control! Shouldn't be a problem on this I'd think. No ABS or fancy powered systems like on the later cars...Just an old fashioned (if huge) servo. The biggest worry is simply bleed nipples refusing to play ball. The rear ones are an absolute pain to get at and use even if everything plays nicely, but if they don't you can be in for an absolute world of pain. Even getting enough access to blast them with Plusgas requires the car to be on the ramps! I've got new discs and pads waiting to go on the front so will get the fronts bled through when I do that...rears will need me to take a brave pill first, but I'll try to get them done at the same time.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Now I have the air conditioning compressor clutch assembly in my hands it's time to start looking at getting the system recommissioned. There are a couple of limitations in the system on this car which means I want to do a few checks before just bolting the new clutch on and sticking the belt back on. The biggest of these is the lack of what are generally considered to be standard safety devices that we are used to be seeing on HVAC systems. Most notably pressure switches. Instead there is simply a thermal fuse on the compressor which cuts out if the compressor itself gets too hot. There's also no way to run the car with the A/C off unless the entire ventilation system is set to "off" - whenever *anything* on the heater is turned on, the A/C is running as the system on the XJ-S is a true automated climate control system...Quite unusual for a design from the 70s. As such I wanted to do everything I could before getting things set up to give everything the best chance of working correctly. Obviously the very first thing that will happen once everything is back in place is it will be getting taken to someone with all the gear to be the remains of any residual charge recovered, leak tested etc and recharged. Before I go to that expense though I'd like to at least have some idea of what's in there and to be reasonably sure that it will pass the leak test. While the condenser looks like absolute hell, there was some pressure still in the system despite it not having been touched as far as I can tell since 2012, which has to be a good sign. Not very much pressure at all...but anything that's enough to move the gauges has to be considered at least vaguely hopeful on a system this old. Given the state of this I was surprised to find anything in there! I'm not kidding myself for a second...This condenser will need to be replaced at some point in the (probably not too distant) future. Aside from the fact that it's probably going to leak sooner than later, the heat rejection capacity will be greatly reduced in this state - and the system will already have taken a performance hit when it was converted from R22 to R134a back in 2012. Having explained the situation to the garage I normally used for this sort of thing they agreed to do me a favour and stick a scoosh of nitrogen into the system for me so I could go around the car and do a check for any major leaks. While it's hard to see the whole thing, there weren't any obvious leaks on the condenser, and watching the pressure it seems that we're not dropping massive amounts. This ties in with us still finding some pressure in the system. A dig around with the leak spray though did track down one obvious one in the engine bay. Give you two guesses where. Yep...You remember those two connections on the line from the compressor to the condenser which are held on with jubilee clips which made me skin crawl as they have no place on any HVAC system beyond a condensate drain line? Bubbly bubbly! Only one end though, the other side seems gas tight surprisingly enough. So we will need to get this line changed before we can look to get the system properly charged. Obviously we may well find more issues when we've actually got a decent head pressure on the system, but it's a start at least.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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ovimor
North East
...It'll be ME!
Posts: 934
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Jun 11, 2020 10:59:39 GMT
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I have followed you all along from the start. You have worked through things methodically and have been prepared for the odd "Ahh.... Hmm, old Jag!" You have a bunch of mechanics 'with you on this'... Like the AC checkup. Good stuff! CarWizard [YouTube] has an interesting illustration of 'unseen consequences' of buying a RestoMod ... Re engined/revised driveline/rewired/AC bodging ... Pointing out how a garage will Charge by the Hour to fix a modded car, rather than Book Prices, because no one knows what goes where/what does what in a breakdown/fix. You have the Manual to point the way >>> even if only to the next broken bit you replace. Keep it up.... OVIMOR
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Last Edit: Jun 11, 2020 14:46:28 GMT by ovimor
Knowledge is to know a Tomato is a 'fruit' - Wisdom, on the other hand, is knowing not to put it in a 'fruit salad'!
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Jun 11, 2020 11:35:23 GMT
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With that jubilee-clip line, can/will you reconfigure to use more appropriate hardware?
John
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Jun 11, 2020 16:57:52 GMT
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With that jubilee-clip line, can/will you reconfigure to use more appropriate hardware? John In theory yes...or I could get Pirtek to attach a new hose properly to the existing ends...but when a new one-piece hose off the shelf is around £30 it's not worth faffing with. Especially as I need to remove the compressor to get the hose off due to how it's attached anyway. That's why those clips are there...it meant they could get away with fitting it earlier in the engine bay assembly process. A typically Jaguar approach if ever there was one!
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:52:35 GMT
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With that jubilee-clip line, can/will you reconfigure to use more appropriate hardware? John Ah yes, I'd forgotten this happened when I last tried to order one. Followed a couple of days later by a "sorry we can't find one" letter and a refund. There don't as far as my trawling of the web last night turned up, seem to be any available outside the US. Which given the price of shipping makes rebuilding the existing pipe make more sense. Our local Pirtek branch have always been really helpful in the past, so I'll pull it off the car and see if they think they can rebuild it for me (or provide me the bits to do so). Shouldn't be difficult really... appropriately sized chunk of properly crimped hose with flare nut fittings, appropriate fittings to fit on the existing rigid line and we're done. So long as the rigid pipe isn't an oddball size we shouldn't have any problems.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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1985 Jaguar XJ-S V12 HEPhil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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Jun 12, 2020 12:24:22 GMT
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Sadly a common theme is today's internet shops which rely on someone being able to count last time they had a stock check. "Computer says yes" to paraphrase a certain comedy show - but shelf says no.
Nothing worse TBH than finding somewhere with stock (apparently) and then after all those hours of using up your google-fu to get a refund and a "sorry" email. Infuriating.
I bet they're still showing stock their website too?
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Jun 12, 2020 13:02:46 GMT
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I had the same hose repaired on my xjs 20 years ago, by a local A/C specialist, most of them have the tools to crimp new hoses. I've also considered buying one of the crimping sets from ebay, wouldn't take many repairs to earn it's keep.
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The really heavy rain we had a couple of days ago revealed a couple of issues with the Jag. Firstly the somewhat embarrassing degree to which it leaks oil. The second leak wasn't entirely unexpected given their reputation for leaks here. We'll be getting some Capt. Tolley's on there soon - I'll also get the rear seat out again to make sure we don't have water pooling under there again. I did that earlier in the year given they have a reputation for leaks here rotting complicated box sections out from the inside where the water collects above the rear suspension mounts. It was bone dry back in January...Not so sure that will now be the case! One fault that's been on the to do list to sort for the last few weeks has apparently decided to fix itself without requiring any manual intervention at least. The bulb check warning light decided to quit working a couple of weeks ago but randomly sprang back to life yesterday afternoon. Further confirming my suspicion that we've got a dodgy contact at the lamp holder. That'll be a rainy day project. There are a few traces on the back of the instrument cluster that I want to repair to prevent future issues - and to investigate to see if I can figure out why the oil pressure gauge is still playing up (it does register pressure changes, just has a huge positive offset on). On the to do list also is properly sorting the trim above the driver's door. I keep wedging this back in place above the trim (or "crash pad" in Jaguar terminology) where it stays until the first time I drive above around 30mph with the window open. I need to get in there with some proper adhesive to see if I can get it to stay put. I had been wanting to try to get a decent recording of how different the Jag sounds and behaves when just gentle bumbling around (and with how different the character of the sound is with windows open vs closed) for a while. So I just set the camera recording and went out for a wander...Then got lost in a housing estate. It is literally just me wandering around for about 20 minutes, so don't expect anything exciting. Sound and video are just straight off my phone stuck to the windscreen up next to the rear view mirror.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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It's almost a little odd watching you drive around where I live I'm surprised the Jag let you leave Wolverton Tesco petrol station without taking a drink!
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Jun 22, 2020 23:03:36 GMT
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It's almost a little odd watching you drive around where I live I'm surprised the Jag let you leave Wolverton Tesco petrol station without taking a drink!
Nah, she only gets fed Shell V-Power...about £90 of which went in the day before that was recorded! -- -- -- I finally lost patience with that bit of trim over the door on the Jag coming loose and attacked it with some spray adhesive today. Hopefully it will stay stuck this time.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Jun 26, 2020 23:17:06 GMT
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Decided it would be fun to spend a couple of hours outside in unreasonable temperatures today arguing with the air con on the Jag. Said temperatures being the main reason for having moved it up the list. Nobody this side of the Atlantic seems to have the compressor to condenser hose actually in stock, despite a number of places listing it. My local hydraulic guy I'd usually use for this sort of things is only doing trade work at the moment. Fair enough. So I snugged up the hose clips a bit to see if it would do anything...leak immediately stopped as far as I can see. Did get a good couple of extra turns on it. We'll see if the pressure has dropped in the morning. Next challenge. Excuse the rubbish photo, this was the only way I could see what I was up against because there's a bonnet in the way - whoever thought that front hinged bonnets were a good idea?!? Getting the 14mm nut off the compressor pulley involved downright alarming levels of force but did eventually crack off. Unfortunately that is as far as I got as apparently I finally need to actually buy a puller. The clutch assembly is well and truly stuck on the compressor shaft. Old school levering and swearing isn't going to cut it this time. On the plus side the brake fluid leak does indeed appear to have been sorted by fitting the new hoses from the reservoir. Still bone dry now. At least that's one thing I can tick off it looks like! Will get a puller ordered and then resume battle with the air con. The bit I'm really not looking forward to is that I need to remove all the other belts again to put the air con one back on...that was so much fun last time.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Couple of things done today. First was a general fluid etc check. I didn't expect anything to have moved on anything aside from the Jag, but everything on that is treated with complete suspicion at all times. Especially given how much oil it appears to leak. Nothing had moved...to be honest, as usual. Had been meaning to properly check the gearbox oil for a while though beyond "there's some in there." Can't complain there. Slightly high reading is expected due to the slope of our driveway. Had a look at the A/C, I left it with about 35psi in it after nipping up the leaking hose clamp a couple of days ago. That's an improvement...it was down to about 5psi after this time last time. I really need to find my proper gauge set. It's in the garage somewhere. Will check it again in a week and see if the gas has continued to stay put. While I was out there I did a bit more investigation of the ticking noise I've noticed over the last couple of weeks. Sounds very much like an exhaust manifold leak...and has now been traced to the furthest back cylinder on the offside (6A?). As disconnecting that injector makes the noise stop. Hmm. There was a brief period where I thought it might just be a noisy injector, but that hope vanished when I discovered that unplugging the spark plug lead had the same effect. Oh. So... Exhaust manifold gasket, cracked exhaust manifold, cracked spark plug...or something more sinister like head/head gasket issues? Place your bets... I'll get plugs ordered in (was sure I'd included them in the last parts order but apparently not), then whip that plug out. At least it's probably the easiest one to get to! At least it looks that way...I may well come to eat those words when I come to actually pull the plug out! If nothing else it will give me a chance to do a compression test on that cylinder, to *hopefully* rule out head troubles. If the exhaust manifold needs work, a garage is getting that job. I'm not playing that game. Speaking of exhausts though, the misaligned tailpipe tips were driving me mad. I needed to do something about them...however discovered that they had now welded themselves into the tailpipes and stubbornly refused to shift. I figured it would be easier to separate them from the silencer off the car. Thanks to being stainless it came apart easily enough and indeed being able to get at it with a hammer meant separating the tailpipe tips took five minutes. It would have been rude not to test out how things sounded without two huge mufflers on the back... especially as this system is quieter than the factory one, and I'd like to hear the exhaust at least a bit..albeit nothing over the top. An experiment needed to be conducted though. Yes...I think I will be speaking to someone about making up some slightly less silenced tailpipes for the Black Cat. Things have been reassembled for now.
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Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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Jun 30, 2020 12:04:08 GMT
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Things I learned yesterday: You need a special tool to wind off/on the clutch pulley on GM/Harrison A6 air conditioning compressors. A normal puller won't cut it, and obviously won't get the pulley back on - it's a friction fit on the compressor shaft, the nut is a safety feature rather than the main means of retention for the pulley.
If I'd used half a brain cell and read up on the job before starting I would have known that and made sure I had said tool in stock. It is now on the way, but if I'd used me head it could have arrived with the new clutch.
Ah well, live and learn!
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Last Edit: Jun 30, 2020 12:09:54 GMT by Zelandeth: Wrong compressor type listed
Current fleet: 73 AC Model-70. 75 Rover 3500. 84 Trabant 601S. 85 Sinclair C5. 06 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi.
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