mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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No problem for you to sort it, it's just a mild breeze compared to the force ten you've just overcome. Happy New Year to you even if you get it sorted before then. It can't be much. Annoying more than anything. Especially if it is the fork, I've got 3 sat on shelf in garage 🙈 Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Hopefully it will be a cheap fix needing nothing more than a bit of time, You sir , have the patience of a saint, 2022 WILL be a better year. Cheers! Not sure if I'm patient or just stubborn haha. 2022 will be the year of the lexus. I can sense it haha |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Just a silly thought, is it possible that the clutch plate could be in backwards? Not just me that has done that then  I've never done it. But know a few people that have haha I'd feel really silly if I'd got the plates in wrong or summat. Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Possibly the clutch plate is stuck to the flywheel/pressure plate. I had one stuck on an X1-9, tried all the above, even tried towing it in gear, wouldn't release. Ended up I managed to prise it off using a screwdriver through an inspection hole in the bell housing while the clutch was depressed. Once free it was fine.🤞 I thought that. But there's no access to it without the box off. And even rockin it backwards and forwards in gear didn't help so it's doubtful. Well see. Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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That's not how I spelt it 🤣🤣 but the sentiment was the same 🤣🤣 |
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Possibly the clutch plate is stuck to the flywheel/pressure plate. I had one stuck on an X1-9, tried all the above, even tried towing it in gear, wouldn't release. Ended up I managed to prise it off using a screwdriver through an inspection hole in the bell housing while the clutch was depressed. Once free it was fine.🤞 I thought that. But there's no access to it without the box off. And even rockin it backwards and forwards in gear didn't help so it's doubtful. Well see. Cheers I have solved such problems a couple of times by warming the engine, stopping it, restarting in gear, pulling away on the starter then being simultaneously brutal with clutch and throttle, in a clear space. Your work private road could be perfect. |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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I thought that. But there's no access to it without the box off. And even rockin it backwards and forwards in gear didn't help so it's doubtful. Well see. Cheers I have solved such problems a couple of times by warming the engine, stopping it, restarting in gear, pulling away on the starter then being simultaneously brutal with clutch and throttle, in a clear space. Your work private road could be perfect. I tried it inside work tbh. Got the engine up to temp then switched off. Then started with a load of throttle clutch dipped and away.. made no difference unfortunately. Il definitely give it another try when I get down to work to strip it. Cheers |
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I have solved such problems a couple of times by warming the engine, stopping it, restarting in gear, pulling away on the starter then being simultaneously brutal with clutch and throttle, in a clear space. Your work private road could be perfect. I tried it inside work tbh. Got the engine up to temp then switched off. Then started with a load of throttle clutch dipped and away.. made no difference unfortunately. Il definitely give it another try when I get down to work to strip it. Cheers Try rapidly on and off the throttle as you pump the clutch pedal. And 🙏 as you do so.😎 I hope that it works for you. |
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Just a silly thought, is it possible that the clutch plate could be in backwards? Erm. Haha... Tbf I took the clutch off in one lump. Sat it in the passenger footwell. And it's stayed there not touched for months. And it was right when I removed it. Suppose il see when box is out tho Cheers So if the clutch hasn't been touched for months and the clutch worked when you last drove the car (and its unlikely that something like the clutch fork would suddenly bend or the bearing collapse the first time you go to use it with the rebuilt engine) then it does sound to me like the clutch has just stuck on. What bits on the clutch system (including hydraulic) have you actually touched as part of the rebuild?
As mentioned above the best way to cure a stuck clutch is to get the car outside and drive it around in first gear with the clutch down and jump on and off the throttle. Looking back at your old pictures it looks like a multiplate clutch and if so there is a lot of surface area and it only takes a small bit of rust for it to stick. On cars with an ordinary clutch i've had to drive them for quite a while to free them off. I would investigate this thoroughly before rushing into taking the box off.
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Dec 23, 2021 14:49:27 GMT
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homersimpsonWith regard to what's been touched and what hasn't. Right back in July when engine came out. Slave cylinder was unbolted off the box but left plumbed in just dangling under car. Clutch plate "carrier" the blue bit haha was unbolted and put in passenger footwell to keep it safe since its most valuable thing I own 🤣 plates were never even removed from the carrier.. It's all been sat in the car since then. And it drove in fine. Nothing looked "rusty" but our workshop is damp.. When it was put back together the back plate bolted onto end of crank. And the carrier and plates was lifted out of car in one piece and bolted back on... I don't remember em being "stuck" together and it's not been sat with pressure on it long. Maybe couple of weeks. I'm willing to give it a try tho and will tow it out the workshop with a forklift and try starting/driving up the yard with it in gear before I rip the box out. Cheers
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Dec 23, 2021 16:23:02 GMT
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Before you pull it apart again just check that the master cylinder is working correctly and that the pipes or hoses or trapped or Kinked . I tissues with mine, similar sort of set up but triple plate, sometimes it work and sometimes it wouldn’t and all the time it was just the slightest of slight weeps from one of the copper washes. I also tried possibly about five different clutch masters to get one to work how wanted the clutch to work, but eventually I had to settle for the standard one but it was new. Even though the old one did work it wasn’t work 100%.
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“It Doesn’t Feel Pity, Or Remorse, Or Fear, And It Absolutely Will Not Stop, Ever, Until You Are Dead!”
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Dec 23, 2021 18:13:05 GMT
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As mentioned above the best way to cure a stuck clutch is to get the car outside and drive it around in first gear with the clutch down and jump on and off the throttle. Looking back at your old pictures it looks like a multiplate clutch and if so there is a lot of surface area and it only takes a small bit of rust for it to stick. On cars with an ordinary clutch i've had to drive them for quite a while to free them off. I would investigate this thoroughly before rushing into taking the box off.
If you do that with a hydraulic clutch, expect to replace the slave cylinder. After you've removed the gearbox and dismantled the clutch to find and fix the real problem. |
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Dec 23, 2021 18:56:10 GMT
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As mentioned above the best way to cure a stuck clutch is to get the car outside and drive it around in first gear with the clutch down and jump on and off the throttle. Looking back at your old pictures it looks like a multiplate clutch and if so there is a lot of surface area and it only takes a small bit of rust for it to stick. On cars with an ordinary clutch i've had to drive them for quite a while to free them off. I would investigate this thoroughly before rushing into taking the box off.
If you do that with a hydraulic clutch, expect to replace the slave cylinder. After you've removed the gearbox and dismantled the clutch to find and fix the real problem. Why do you think there would be any more presure on the slave cylinder than when you are sitting in traffic? The slave cylinder is outside the box pushing on a fork which is operating the release bearing.
If you hold it down while driving along the slave cylinder isn't seeing anything different to a stationary condition.
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Dec 23, 2021 19:05:30 GMT
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The other thing to check (even if you think its operating correctly) is to bleed the clutch again just to make sure that it has enough travel.
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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I'm a bit confused as to why trying that would damage the slave? Like it's been said it's just bolted to the outside the box with an arm going inside.. it's working cus ive been under the car while my boss pressed pedal. And apears to be getting full travel (don't remeber exactly to the mm what it moved before, but seems the same)..
I will try and give it another bleed an will definitely try and drive it as a last resort before I pull it apart.
Cheers
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If you do that with a hydraulic clutch, expect to replace the slave cylinder. After you've removed the gearbox and dismantled the clutch to find and fix the real problem. Why do you think there would be any more presure on the slave cylinder than when you are sitting in traffic? The slave cylinder is outside the box pushing on a fork which is operating the release bearing.
If you hold it down while driving along the slave cylinder isn't seeing anything different to a stationary condition.
Now consider that the rest of the linkage, whatever it might be, isn't working. I've seen several blown slave cylinders on cars that had been standing, and were trying the 'hold the clutch down and drive it' method to free it off. Hell, we even bought one like that, returned the following day with a replacement cylinder and fitted it in the street while the seller put the kettle on. The look on his face when he came out with the coffees and found the car being road tested was a picture. |
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Dec 24, 2021 10:46:32 GMT
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Why do you think there would be any more presure on the slave cylinder than when you are sitting in traffic? The slave cylinder is outside the box pushing on a fork which is operating the release bearing.
If you hold it down while driving along the slave cylinder isn't seeing anything different to a stationary condition.
Now consider that the rest of the linkage, whatever it might be, isn't working. I've seen several blown slave cylinders on cars that had been standing, and were trying the 'hold the clutch down and drive it' method to free it off. Hell, we even bought one like that, returned the following day with a replacement cylinder and fitted it in the street while the seller put the kettle on. The look on his face when he came out with the coffees and found the car being road tested was a picture. If a slave cylinder fails then there is something wrong with it, even if the linkage was welded up solid you could stand on the pedal and it won't break/burst if all the seals and pipes are in good condition.
In the example you gave above it sounds like you just bought a car with a faulty slave cylinder, especially if fitting a new one just fixed the problem and you were able to drive it away.
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Dec 24, 2021 10:54:38 GMT
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"Got it back up in air and thought maybe I had air in the circuit. So broke out the pressure bleeder. I did get a few bubbles but not much. Also got my boss to pump the peddle and confirmed the slave apears to be moving full travel, and is moving the fork as expected externally.. "
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Last Edit: Dec 24, 2021 10:56:36 GMT by westbay
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Dec 24, 2021 11:51:52 GMT
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Now consider that the rest of the linkage, whatever it might be, isn't working. I've seen several blown slave cylinders on cars that had been standing, and were trying the 'hold the clutch down and drive it' method to free it off. Hell, we even bought one like that, returned the following day with a replacement cylinder and fitted it in the street while the seller put the kettle on. The look on his face when he came out with the coffees and found the car being road tested was a picture. If a slave cylinder fails then there is something wrong with it, even if the linkage was welded up solid you could stand on the pedal and it won't break/burst if all the seals and pipes are in good condition.
In the example you gave above it sounds like you just bought a car with a faulty slave cylinder, especially if fitting a new one just fixed the problem and you were able to drive it away.
That car had been stuck in a lockup for a couple of years. The seller claimed that the clutch freed off at about the same time as the cylinder failed. Which, as I wrote matches my experience with several other cars, most of which killed the cylinder before the clutch freed off. That requires gearbox removal to make the clutch work. I agree that a weak cylinder will exacerbate the problem, but those are also likely to fail very quickly when the car is put into service. That's so common with brake hydraulics that I budget new wheel cylinders and a M/C seal kit for any car I buy that hasn't been used much recently. |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Dec 28, 2021 20:49:47 GMT
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Merry Christmas retroridest's... Is it still Christmas? It's not new year yet. Regardless I hope we've all had a good one. And the big lad with the sack has been? (There's a joke there somewhere but I'm not childish) 😂😂 Anyways. Politeness out the way. On my FB memory's today was this beauty.. a whole year since we were taking the auto box out of my mates ls400 for the manual swap.. (which is still for sale if you fancy it)..  And since we were there today, seemed fitting to recreate it 😂😂  So why were we at my work.. well.. my clutch. It's bugged me. Kept me awake. Annoyed me. Worried me. Generally been the bain of my last week (Xmas dinner worrying about clutch throw wasn't the one) 😂😂 Managed to rope my mate into coming to help, but only had a couple hour between Mrs getting up off nights and kids needing my adult attention.. so had to be quick.. or efficient. Depends how you look at it.. First thing first was get it outside and try and drive it.. after a bit of shoving and pushing on my own (my mate was late as per) got it to the door and fired it up to let it warm up. Figured best chance of it freeing off from driving was if it was half warm and could be driven away, with it running properly..  Let's not drag this out any longer than it needs be. Put it out of its misery as such.... It didn't work. At all. It will start in gear and instantly lunges forwards. I was even on boost and wheelspinning up our yard. But no amount of dogging clutch/throttle was freeing anything off. So after a few attempts I gave up shoved it back inside and realised box was coming out again.. Now as I said we were short on time so even by my standards the pics are bad. But here's the few just to give a feel for job in the cold dark pit...   So.... What did I find with box out and some swearing (and a water leak and then spilt all my new gearbox oil)... Picture the scene. It's June, I've got face on, my masterpiece is a kettle and I can't afford to mend it.. engine out and clutch removed and put in passenger footwell of car since its most valuable thing I own.. all bolts for bellhousing chucked in footwell too so I don't lose owt. 6 month passes I come to fit clutch it's just sat there as I left it.. picked it up in one lump, never removed the plates or owt, fitted it, aligned happy days... Come to fit the box and I've lost a bellhousing bolt, hardly surprising it's been moved around and spread round our workshop for months. Grabbed a spare chucked box on happy days... Except I've no clutch and it won't disengage... Well I've found the chuffing missing bolt 🙈😭😭😭😭. Yeah. That will do it    Now let's not pretend I wasnt curse word off with myself. Cus I am. Yes it happens yes in grand scheme of things it could be worse. But come on I'm meant to mend stuff for a living then that happens.. yes it could have been worse, and this is the first "mistake" I've made in however long it's been going on for. I can picture myself throwing the bellhousin bolts in the footwell ffs!! But I wasn't a happy bunny (but slightly pleased I found summat).. haha So full of life and enthusiasm. Got it put back together (without a random bellhousing bolt wedged in clutch). Hour and half from spanners up to spanners down. Don't think that's bad in a 4ft deep pit in the dark.. haha And since we love a video here's one to prove it works And since I'm fundamentally a child and it came as a massive relief it worked. Here's another, to prove I am a child (it was warm and I didn't go that mad haha) Makes good noises doesn't it!! 😂😂 Anyways with that I'm done. It's tucked safely away, I'm not even thinking about it now til I'm back at work and it works! Next job I reckon is a nice stainless slightly quieter exhaust. And a bit of finishing off. And look to getting it back on the road for end of Jan!  Cheers!! |
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