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Sorry to hear. You'll end with fresh engine and no fcuking about any more with unknown or questionable condition engines.
Really, a fresh engine is a great move and the right thing to do considering you going for big power even if the timing is far from ideal for you.
The minute you start buying the first of the new parts you'll be back on track and no doubt feeling a whole lot better.
Looking forward to more updates in due course.
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Last Edit: Jun 26, 2021 10:56:01 GMT by Woofwoof
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Jun 26, 2021 11:46:03 GMT
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If it’s any consolation mine is now playing up and ditching coolant. Thought everything was fine after the Cambelt, waterpump and all that. But then the fans came on within a couple minutes of it running. It appears that water is running to the V so one of the gaskets or O-rings has failed. Hopefully it’s not cooked my engine as I didn’t realise that so much coolent had been lost my water pump didn’t having sufficient coolant to pump.
So mine is once again sat in the garage on its own, in a pool of his own wee.
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“It Doesn’t Feel Pity, Or Remorse, Or Fear, And It Absolutely Will Not Stop, Ever, Until You Are Dead!”
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Jun 26, 2021 14:11:43 GMT
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The way you have had failures of the cooling system components points to an issue with the radiator cap to me, the cap doesn't seem to be releasing to relieve the pressure. I would check that carefully before you put a rebuilt engine in, you don't want it happening again :-(
Sorry to hear the bad news but onwards and upwards, it will be even better once you have rebuilt it!
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Jun 26, 2021 17:07:07 GMT
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Agreed - you are clearly generating a fair amount of pressure in the cooling system - the cap should have lifted long before either of those failures. Right royal pi55er for you - you have my sympathy. Big boost on a std engine of (essentially) unknown providence though so perhaps not a complete surprise. (Just think of what you'll get on a proper engine - something beginning with a 5 ought to be motivating  ) |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 26, 2021 17:34:05 GMT
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Bumhats  At least you know I guess, and it’ll be right when it’s done I mean I've built plenty of engines. But never one with this many bits haha. But how hard can it be 😅 |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 26, 2021 17:34:47 GMT
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I said something similar haha |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 26, 2021 17:37:28 GMT
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Sorry to hear. You'll end with fresh engine and no fcuking about any more with unknown or questionable condition engines. Really, a fresh engine is a great move and the right thing to do considering you going for big power even if the timing is far from ideal for you. The minute you start buying the first of the new parts you'll be back on track and no doubt feeling a whole lot better. Looking forward to more updates in due course. The timing is far from ideal.. it's 2 days after payday and I'm what the general population would consider skint already ,🙈 but il do what I can with what I can haha. The engines have indeed been questionable, the first being higher mileage the second not removed by me. The only saving grace is the bits I sold more than covered the cost of them. So technically were free using finest man maths haha I've already got a list of gaskets to price up Monday so wel see what's occuring when I've spoke to a few people. Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 26, 2021 17:38:51 GMT
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If it’s any consolation mine is now playing up and ditching coolant. Thought everything was fine after the Cambelt, waterpump and all that. But then the fans came on within a couple minutes of it running. It appears that water is running to the V so one of the gaskets or O-rings has failed. Hopefully it’s not cooked my engine as I didn’t realise that so much coolent had been lost my water pump didn’t having sufficient coolant to pump. So mine is once again sat in the garage on its own, in a pool of his own wee. Makes you wonder why we do what we do.. as I backed it into workshop yesterday no coolant in it. But sat on fresh rubber with fresh refurb wheels 🙈.. I noticed the mileage and let's just say compared to the last MOT it's not been great value £ per mile haha |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 26, 2021 17:39:58 GMT
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The way you have had failures of the cooling system components points to an issue with the radiator cap to me, the cap doesn't seem to be releasing to relieve the pressure. I would check that carefully before you put a rebuilt engine in, you don't want it happening again :-( Sorry to hear the bad news but onwards and upwards, it will be even better once you have rebuilt it! It will be best it's ever been when is done. I'm not convinced the initial rad cap leaking externally didn't cook the engine without me realising.. but don't worry nothing will be going back in I'm not 100% happy with. Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 26, 2021 17:42:27 GMT
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Agreed - you are clearly generating a fair amount of pressure in the cooling system - the cap should have lifted long before either of those failures. Right royal pi55er for you - you have my sympathy. Big boost on a std engine of (essentially) unknown providence though so perhaps not a complete surprise. (Just think of what you'll get on a proper engine - something beginning with a 5 ought to be motivating ) It will have a 5 for definite. With arp head studs and MLS gaskets there's no reason that 5 couldn't be a 6.. but let's get it working first. And your right. But I'm not sure it's not cremated one bank and it simply can't get rid of that much excess pressure. It was very very toasty when it let go yesterday.. I'm not convinced the dual rad cap set up is working how I imagined it in my head either. But that will be going and the original cap getting welded up while it's all in bits too! Cheers |
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Jun 26, 2021 19:06:43 GMT
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i cannot understand how, if the cap blows off as it should ,it got enough pressure to totally chernobyl the plastic thermostat body ?
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 26, 2021 21:38:34 GMT
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i cannot understand how, if the cap blows off as it should ,it got enough pressure to totally chernobyl the plastic thermostat body ? The only thing in my head that makes any sense is that the original rad cap actually seals when the rad gets hot.. then aswell as that there's the secondary1.1 bar cap on the expansion bottle. And I've no idea how stuff like this works but if the pressure has got to get past a combined 2.2 bar of rad caps, something will give maybe?? Plus I'm fairly sure the engine is proper poorly, it will boil the water in less than a mile from work from stone cold. Thats some kettle that will do that.. The second cap does open cus pre explosion it overflowed the second bottle. And the only way it can possibly do that is if the cap had opened. Regardless. Its dead now 😭 before it goes back together it is having the original fill point on the rad welded up and will just be running the one pressurised cap on the expansion bottle Cheers |
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Matt,
Do you have a pressure cap on the radiator and the expansion bottle ?
If you have then as the water in the rad expands ( when hot) it opens the cap , water flows to the expansion bottle , but, when it cools it cannot flow back to the rad as the pressure cap only works one way ...
With an expansion bottle setup the rad cap is just a cap so coolant flows freely out to expansion bottle and back to rad when cooling.
Apologies if you already knew this .
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Matt, Do you have a pressure cap on the radiator and the expansion bottle ? If you have then as the water in the rad expands ( when hot) it opens the cap , water flows to the expansion bottle , but, when it cools it cannot flow back to the rad as the pressure cap only works one way ... With an expansion bottle setup the rad cap is just a cap so coolant flows freely out to expansion bottle and back to rad when cooling. Apologies if you already knew this . There's a "pressure" cap on the rad. But it doesn't seal the overflow port. Its just open all the time (blame the measurements on the Chinese filler neck).. so even tho it should be "sealed" until it builds enough pressure to open. As I fill the engine from one of the fill points it flows straight out the rad into the original overflow (that didn't have a pressure cap) I added a second expansion bottle with a pressure cap with the hope that this would keep the pressure in the engine until it needed to release said pressure into the overflow (used my original expansion bottle as an overflow, one with a normal lid not a pressure cap).. and it appeared to work least for a short while. A seamingly daft question then. Once coolant has passed the expansion bottle (with the pressure cap) and gone into the overlflow. Can that not be drawn back into the engine? If that's the case what's the point of a bottle post cap? It may aswell have a pipe to the floor for the use the coolant in the bottle ever will be again (the standard set up from the factory has a non pressurised expansion bottle post cap mounted directly to the back of the rad. I've mimicked that but the bottle is a bit further away from the engine)... Cheers |
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No such thing as a daft question, it's the way we learn, "Don't ask Don't find out"  "There's a "pressure" cap on the rad. But it doesn't seal the overflow port. Its just open all the time (blame the measurements on the Chinese filler neck).. so even tho it should be "sealed" until it builds enough pressure to open. As I fill the engine from one of the fill points it flows straight out the rad into the original overflow (that didn't have a pressure cap)" Agreed , but the overflow pipe , unsealed, is after the pressure rad cap, so the rad cap opens water flows to the expansion tank via the oveflow pipe, pressure drops it closes - there is no return flow from the overflow pipe as the rad cap is now closed .... If the presuure cap is on the expansion bottle then anything going beyond that in use is 'lost' as the pressure cap only works one way ... By the same process if the rad cap only 'opens' when sufficient pressure then anything passing into the expansion bottle (and beyound) is 'lost' as the(pressure) cap only opens when hot... |
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Last Edit: Jun 27, 2021 8:56:41 GMT by westbay
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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On my car it works both ways. When the engine cools, the water will create a little vacuum, and the rad cap opens to draw back in what it pushed to the overflow bottle.
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Brigsy
Part of things
Posts: 617
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Jun 27, 2021 10:00:55 GMT
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As water pump is tested working and thermostat working it can only be pointing to exhaust gasses in the coolant with the way its popped a few hoses. Had similar issue with turbo cars in the past having massive pressure in the cooling system when the headgasket has gone, but engine was running reasonably well.
Id do a comp test/leakdown and see if it pin points which cylinder is the issue. Id be looking at why its failed, maybe gone a bit lean for whatever reason, or even just old age. Would be a shame to repair and have similar issues in the future.
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,238 
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Jun 27, 2021 16:48:16 GMT
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I read this and it made perfect sense No such thing as a daft question, it's the way we learn, "Don't ask Don't find out" "There's a "pressure" cap on the rad. But it doesn't seal the overflow port. Its just open all the time (blame the measurements on the Chinese filler neck).. so even tho it should be "sealed" until it builds enough pressure to open. As I fill the engine from one of the fill points it flows straight out the rad into the original overflow (that didn't have a pressure cap)" Agreed , but the overflow pipe , unsealed, is after the pressure rad cap, so the rad cap opens water flows to the expansion tank via the oveflow pipe, pressure drops it closes - there is no return flow from the overflow pipe as the rad cap is now closed .... If the presuure cap is on the expansion bottle then anything going beyond that in use is 'lost' as the pressure cap only works one way ... By the same process if the rad cap only 'opens' when sufficient pressure then anything passing into the expansion bottle (and beyound) is 'lost' as the(pressure) cap only opens when hot... However I also read this and I know that it is true because it's a similar setup to my MR2 (4A-GE engine) On my car it works both ways. When the engine cools, the water will create a little vacuum, and the rad cap opens to draw back in what it pushed to the overflow bottle. That got me totally confused as I thought I knew how the MR2 system worked and I couldn't see how a similar setup wouldn't work for Matt, or how both things could be true. So I dug out my Toyota 4A-GE engine manual and had a read on the cooling system section. Turns out I was correct in how the system works BUT one very important detail had escaped my attention. Turns that the pressure cap isn't just any old standard pressure cap, it's a special one,. This is Toyota's description of the MR2 cooling system note the part in red So if the wrong type caps (i.e. standard pressure caps) are fitted then what Westbay describes is going to happen and you'll end up with a half empty (or worse) system. I suspect you have the wrong type of caps and that is what has caused the problems with overheating. Apologies for not noticing this sooner and please totally ignore it if you have the correct type of caps fitted. FYI the MR2 cap is 0.9bar, although I believe you can get a higher pressure cap (1.3 bar?) for the MMR2, I seem to remember TRD doing a high pressure one. |
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Last Edit: Jun 28, 2021 0:58:26 GMT by jimi
Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,238
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Did a bit more research and found this article with a diagram of the double seal cap LINKYAnd here link 2 |
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Last Edit: Jun 28, 2021 8:29:36 GMT by jimi
Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Jun 30, 2021 20:30:50 GMT
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On my car it works both ways. When the engine cools, the water will create a little vacuum, and the rad cap opens to draw back in what it pushed to the overflow bottle. See in testing it worked both ways. Cus as it cooled the coolant was drawn back in... |
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