|
|
|
|
|
|
I converted both my rover P5s from BW35 to 4ZFHP22 and it is a very good modification. My P5 with the BW35 used to do 4000 rev at 120km-hr and with the 4ZF it reduced to 2500 which is much better. I used the old gear stick and had to do a fair bit of work to get the Jag cable work instead of the rods on the BW35. I used 4ZF boxes from the sherpa vans as these have a mechanical speedo while most of these have electronic speedos. Boxes from different car can have different valve blocks and therefore some are better suited then others. I bought the second box from a guy called Andy in the UK who is a specialist on these boxes and delivered me a complete kit even with a seperate oil cooler
Peter
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you know why the car was taken off the road originally? It may be that the engine problems were at least part of that.
When I bought my MK2 Jag Auto it had been off the road for years, I got it going and it ran ok, good oil pressure not much smoke (although no exhaust so didn't run it for long!). I drove it forwards fine but when I wanted to reverse it wouldn't.
When I rebuilt it I pulled the gearbox apart (which is the older DG250 unit) and found the reverse break band lining had come loose.
I would strongly suspect that this was the reason the car came off the road or at least was the final nail in the coffin.
The engine on the other hand seemed fine but I took it apart and it had three types of pistons in it and one was bored +10 so it had clearly had some bangernomics bodgery going on in its life!
I rebuilt the engine and had the machining done by Dave's Engine Centre in Studley who arn't too far from you and were very good and helpful.
With your engine it might be worth pulling the heads off in situ and having a look at them and maybe dropping the sump if you can to check the bearings before pulling it all out.
It may be that there is some wear and you might be able to re-shell it in situ or it might be ok and the poor oil pressure might be related to temperature (if its getting hot), a faulty pump, pressure relief valve or even just the wrong grade of oil.
With the cost of engine rebuilds you need to decide how much you plan to use it and how much wear is too much, for example if it would be ok for another 20K mile with new valve guides and head gaskets that might be all the miles you will ever do in it. Just food for thought before you launch into an expensive engine rebuild. I don't know what the cost is for a daimler engine but the parts and machining on my 3.8 XK were over a £1000 in the end and I now have a 2.4 XK to do which does need a lot as it was siezed solid.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you know why the car was taken off the road originally? It may be that the engine problems were at least part of that. When I bought my MK2 Jag Auto it had been off the road for years, I got it going and it ran ok, good oil pressure not much smoke (although no exhaust so didn't run it for long!). I drove it forwards fine but when I wanted to reverse it wouldn't. When I rebuilt it I pulled the gearbox apart (which is the older DG250 unit) and found the reverse break band lining had come loose. I would strongly suspect that this was the reason the car came off the road or at least was the final nail in the coffin. The engine on the other hand seemed fine but I took it apart and it had three types of pistons in it and one was bored +10 so it had clearly had some bangernomics bodgery going on in its life! I rebuilt the engine and had the machining done by Dave's Engine Centre in Studley who arn't too far from you and were very good and helpful. With your engine it might be worth pulling the heads off in situ and having a look at them and maybe dropping the sump if you can to check the bearings before pulling it all out. It may be that there is some wear and you might be able to re-shell it in situ or it might be ok and the poor oil pressure might be related to temperature (if its getting hot), a faulty pump, pressure relief valve or even just the wrong grade of oil. With the cost of engine rebuilds you need to decide how much you plan to use it and how much wear is too much, for example if it would be ok for another 20K mile with new valve guides and head gaskets that might be all the miles you will ever do in it. Just food for thought before you launch into an expensive engine rebuild. I don't know what the cost is for a daimler engine but the parts and machining on my 3.8 XK were over a £1000 in the end and I now have a 2.4 XK to do which does need a lot as it was siezed solid. I agree with the above but be careful as ive done similar and ended up throwing good money after bad, as i spent money on gaskets, valve stem seals etc, not to mention the hours and ended up rebuilding the engine to its full extent in the end anyway. I wished i bit the bullet in the first place and just rebuilt it from the start. (It wasnt the same engine as yours) |
| |
|
|
goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,887
|
|
|
|
Thanks guys for the ZF gearbox info, all duly noted and can bear it in mind if I go down that conversion route in the future  I've no idea why the car was taken off the road homersimpson. All I got from the previous owner was that the car had been off the road for about 10 years (was actually 33 years...) and that a couple of different owners had started restoring (in the loosest sense of the word) but never completed it. The only piece of paper work I got with it was the v5. I don't know if it's the case with the XK engines in the Mk2, but removing the sump from the v8 with the engine in the car would probably be more work than removing the engine! The front cross member would have to come down if not off completely, with all the associated brakes, steering and suspension hassle that goes along with that. Given the reputation these engines have for eating the middle 3 main bearings, and the symptoms I have, I've be shocked if its not the main bearings at fault for the oil pressure loss. Given how awkward is it to work on the v8 in the engine bay designed for a straight 6, I think it's worth pulling the engine. Even if the end result is that I overhaul it, with main bearings, some valve guides and head gaskets, rather than a true rebuild. It will have been worth it to do it on the stand, rather than lying on my back under the car! I'm aware how expensive engine builds can get, and I hadn't budgeted for this, so this unlikely to be a full 'as new' rebuild, more of a refresh and replacement of parts where necessary. Thanks for the recommendation of the engine machine shop, always good to have recommended places. I agree @elkyholic, in many ways the situation I find myself in now is an example of that. I've already had the engine out once before, and it's got all new gaskets for things like inlet and exhaust manifolds, water pump and cam covers, not to mention the 8l of new engine oil and gallons of coolant. I will be fully disassembling the engine and measuring everything before I decide whether to do a simple refresh, a deeper engine build or simply a case of taking the engine parts down the tip and looking for a replacement! |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
it's the gift that keeps on giving ,  i am fascinated now to see what's in there , and where the problems are , if you lived in my neck of the w, i would be right round with my adjustable spanner |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
if you lived in my neck of the w, i would be right round with my adjustable spanner You'd need an imperial one for that car. It's an old joke, barely worth repeating to be honest...  I just can't help myself. Sorry!  |
| |
|
|
hohocc
Part of things
Posts: 36 
|
|
|
|
if you lived in my neck of the w, i would be right round with my adjustable spanner You'd need an imperial one for that car. It's an old joke, barely worth repeating to be honest... I just can't help myself. Sorry! I suspect a metric one plus some colourful language will be an acceptable substitute! |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Very nice job. Well done. Sorry about the issues though. Regarding the transmission. AW70/71 from a Volvo 240/740 may also be an option for an upgrade. A rather popular modification for older Volvo cars originally equipped with BW35. I am planning on doing that for my Volvo 162 (yes two doors). Installing a AW71L with lock up, from a 740 turbo. Here is a guide how to in a P1800 www.v1800reg.org/pages/AW70%20CONV.PDF |
| |
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
|
|
|
|
Drop the oil into a clean container then dip your hand in and hold it up to the light to see if it's got death glitter in. If it hasn't, and the sump shows no signs of it when it's removed just use it again.
IIRC it'll probably work out cheaper to get the block sleeved than buy oversize pistons.
Check cost/availability of camshaft and followers. They'll most likely be so worn you'll wonder how it ran in the first place. Also cam bearings. You can't clean the block properly with them in and on some older engines they're only available semi finished so there is the extra cost of line boring them etc etc.
Old engines are a absolute minefield for rebuilds. I always find it amazing that they keep running when they're so worn they've got clearances I could get my cock in.
|
| |
|
|
brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108
|
|
|
|
Old engines are a absolute minefield for rebuilds. I always find it amazing that they keep running when they're so worn they've got clearances I could get my cock in. So many jokes to make..... |
| |
|
|
ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
|
|
|
|
It's a shame it's got to this stage but at least the show is still going on . Regarding the gearbox, the ZF 4HP22 as mentioned previously can fit onto almost anything. In the Stag world, an adaptor plate was used in between the 'box and the bellhousing. Furthermore, you can use a rod change still on it ; it's how my Stag eventually went and how most places convert them including Tate and Lewis. I wouldn't get too hung up on the speedo drive, as it can add a bit of bulk onto the 'box. On the Stag, I bought a Smiths speedometer but I believe you may be able to convert yours anyway . My Stag drove lovely with it. However, never ever use a secondhand cooler with it. I did and it cost me 2 gearbox rebuilds ; small wonder that Ashcroft transmissions won't guarantee a rebuilt 'box with a used cooler. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I had a ZF4HP24, supplied by Ashcroft Transmissions, and a new oil cooler using braided hoses, fitted to my 300tdi Defender.
Of all of the 12 Series, 90's, and Defenders that I have owned over many years, this is actually the nicest one to drive.
The gearbox is so smooth and not too long ago coped well with a trip to France, when I brought back a trailer loaded with a horticultural tractor.
Oil temperature in the gearbox did rise a bit, whilst towing, but never to danger levels. I had the oil temperature gauge fitted on the advice of someone else who already had the same configuration as mine. Normal operating temperature runs at around 60 degrees C, once warm.
Thoroughly recommend the ZF4HP24 gearbox.
|
| |
|
|
goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,887
|
|
|
|
Not to worry guys, got both metric and imperial adjustable spanners in stock. Don't tell anyone, but I tend to use them interchangeably! haha. Thanks for the continuing gearbox info. As I mentioned before, I had a 4hp24 in my old Xj6, and it was a great gearbox so if I wanted to go down the gearbox swap route the ZF box would be top of my list. In the short term though the engine is very much the priority. Drop the oil into a clean container then dip your hand in and hold it up to the light to see if it's got death glitter in. If it hasn't, and the sump shows no signs of it when it's removed just use it again. IIRC it'll probably work out cheaper to get the block sleeved than buy oversize pistons. Check cost/availability of camshaft and followers. They'll most likely be so worn you'll wonder how it ran in the first place. Also cam bearings. You can't clean the block properly with them in and on some older engines they're only available semi finished so there is the extra cost of line boring them etc etc. Old engines are a absolute minefield for rebuilds. I always find it amazing that they keep running when they're so worn they've got clearances I could get my cock in. Thanks for the tips. There's no sign of glitter on the dip stick, I think we're looking at long term wear, rather than the sort of sump full metal you'd get with a spun bearing (been there done that with my 12a rotary!) After putting all the time into taking the engine out and refreshing it, I think I'll just put fresh fluids in and not risk it. New piston sets are available, but it's almost £1k for a set. Interestingly, the old fashioned tuning advice was to fit Triumph Bonnevile pistons. The engines have a certain amount of shared heritage, and I could get 8 Triumph pistons with rings for £400. I guess I'll measure the pistons and bores when I pull it apart, and see how worn they are, go from there. Plenty of aftermarket camshafts available for this engine, not sure about standard replacement ones. Cam followers have been unavailable for years, it's a known challenge with the Daimler v8. Cam bearings are available, but not cheap. |
| |
|
|
glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,353
Club RR Member Number: 64
|
|
|
|
|
Could it be a stuck open oil pressure relief valve? Maybe worth checking before you get too deep. Could well be smoky because of gummed up rings too...
Safest bet is pull it out and strip it though, rather than risk doing expensive damage trying to save time/money.
If it’s stood as long as you suspect, then you did well to get it running at all.
|
| |
My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
LS it?
|
| |
1987 Supercharged BMW R1150 Citroen 2cv Hillclimb Monster
1995 Renault Master Mk1 Race Transporter
1994 Mazda MX5 Mk1 / NA Road Going Class Hillclimber
1991 UMM Alter II Crew Cab OM606 SuperTurbo Diesel MegaUMM Overlander
1992 UMM Alter II Station Wagon
1980 UMM Cournil - survivor - resto project
1979 Lomax 224
2014 VW T5.1 Transporter Kombi Highline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Could it be a stuck open oil pressure relief valve? Maybe worth checking before you get too deep. Could well be smoky because of gummed up rings too... Safest bet is pull it out and strip it though, rather than risk doing expensive damage trying to save time/money. If it’s stood as long as you suspect, then you did well to get it running at all. True, ive had stuck oil control rings before and it did indeed smoke like a bstard, i freed them off after taking tge pistons out, but by that point the overall wear dictated a rebuild. |
| |
|
|
ovimor
North East
...It'll be ME!
Posts: 934
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Knowledge is to know a Tomato is a 'fruit' - Wisdom, on the other hand, is knowing not to put it in a 'fruit salad'!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If I remember correctly the Daimler hemi has centrifugal sludge traps in the crank which have to be cleaned by removing some bungs. Just another thing to check,
|
| |
Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
|
|
Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,951
|
|
|
|
Love your build. Please continue. P. |
| |
|
|
i am fascinated now to see what's in there , and where the problems are , if you lived in my neck of the w, i would be right round with my adjustable spanner 
