gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330 
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Aug 30, 2019 14:30:56 GMT
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Hope the engine goes well - just a quick thought - did you have the rocker covers sand blasted before painting them? If so, and they've got riveted internal baffles make sure you drill the rivets and remove and clean inside then refit. See more "tuned" engines killed by sand from blasting the rocker covers going back into the engine from the breather system than proper blow ups. I hope it goes at all! Well would be a nice bonus...  I didn't have them sand blasted, although I still need to re-paint them. They do have baffles that are screwed in place which have been removed and cleaned under thoroughly though  |
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OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
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Such a fantastic build, your approach is very inspiring. I like to come through the readers rides section to find some motivation for my own project and your approach is admirable, I will keep checking in to see how you get on.
I have a 944 and have had an MX5 previously, I never even knew these conversions were a thing until I read your thread here! I was in a place many years ago, TDI (torque Developmental Industries or something like that) and they had two MX5's in their shop at the time, one with a F20 from a S2000 and the other had, if I remember correctly, a SR20DET out of a S14/A. Personally I love a V6 so know what id go for!
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Sept 9, 2019 22:21:10 GMT
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Such a fantastic build, your approach is very inspiring. I like to come through the readers rides section to find some motivation for my own project and your approach is admirable, I will keep checking in to see how you get on. I have a 944 and have had an MX5 previously, I never even knew these conversions were a thing until I read your thread here! I was in a place many years ago, TDI (torque Developmental Industries or something like that) and they had two MX5's in their shop at the time, one with a F20 from a S2000 and the other had, if I remember correctly, a SR20DET out of a S14/A. Personally I love a V6 so know what id go for!
Thanks, I'm flattered! I keep thinking it feels rather low on skill compared to lots of the threads here, I'm mostly just bolting pre fabricated bits together - but I'm enjoying it! The engine was a bit of a learning curve, but help from here and a local friend has left me relatively hopeful it will run - I mean, I didn't really do that much to it other than take it apart and put it together again with fresh big end bearings.
The MX5 does seem a pretty ubiquitous platform for all sorts of swaps... a decent chassis that can be bought for pennies I guess! There would probably be more around too if it wasn't so easy to make reliable power from the stock engine with a turbo or SC. The guy I bought the base car from was selling as he had just bought a nearly identical MX5 with a Toyota UZ engine in it...(not sure which variant)
Assuming my engine runs well this should do about 260bhp - and make V6-y noises . The guys at Rocketeer were talking about 300 being possible with cams... Some driving tuition would probably be money better spent though!
Where was I... Waiting on Flywheel bolts. They've arrived, and they are very fine threaded - they make the M10 Fine bolts look rather coarse!
First though, I had already fitted the sump, but had only put a bead of sealant on the upper side of the gasket. While I was on holiday this was bugging me, so I've came back and fixed that before going any further with the engine:
That photo had looked sharp on my phone... ah well, you get the idea. I'm getting better at laying down beads of sealant... just not at photographing them!
Before it goes on, the kit comes with a lightweight aluminium flywheel... it is rather nice.
It's creators certainly think highly of it too... the 'finest flywheel' apparently!
On first offering up, it didn't look like the holes aligned:
But I quickly realised that they're not actually evenly spaced and found the correct alignment
I can't see why the flywheel needs aligning on this engine - it's not used for engine timing, and surely a flywheel/clutch assembly should be balanced in itself and bolted on to a balanced engine. Answers on a postcard?
Bolts in with a dab of locktite and torqued up to 80Nm, the smaller breaker bar locking the engine.
Pilot bearing knocked in with a large socket and wiped the friction surface down with brake cleaner:
Friction plate in place with the alignment tool - after triple checking which way round it went!
And finally the bright pink clutch pressure plate. classy.
With lots of crossed fingers, I think I have all parts needed to be able to pop this in the car and reclaim some garage space now! Just need to find some time to do it, I'm loosing the long evengins!
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Sept 23, 2019 21:42:50 GMT
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I found some time this weekend, and made more time by taking Monday off, and with my gf helping we got quite a lot done! Final bits of prep to the engine was some faffing with the power steering pump bracket and getting the starter motor fitted. I'm still pretty convinced I was sent the wrong PAS bracket - it's taken too much drilling and too many spacers to make it line up properly. I don't like the stacks of washers but it should work at least.
The supplied fixings for it also aren't long enough, so they're on my order list. The threads stop just short of the nyloc ring, not getting them through any scrutineering!
Neither of my engines came with a starter, so £20 to a breaker on ebay got me a slightly rusty example. Came in the box for a new aftermarket starter motor too - that might be a bad omen. Maybe I should have bench tested it...
That's the engine all prepped for fitting! First though, a test fit of the gearbox. The adapter plate sits about 2mm underflush to the starter ring on the flywheel, which can catch on the gearbox bellhousing. Earlier in the thread I filed a bevel around the inside of the bellhousing to make sure it cleared, but seems prudent to check before fitting!
Bolted up, spins nicely. I'm running out of excuses for putting this lot in the car now.
The rocketeer instructions tell you to bolt up the engine, subframe and gearbox off the car, then position them underneath and lift them up into the engine bay - the same way I dropped the old engine out. When I collected the kit however I was advised that recently the guys doing the turnkey conversions had found that it was far easier to put the subframe and gearbox in the car, then drop the engine in. (In hindsight, I may have remembered the order wrong...)
So, subframe was already in. Saturday morning I was working by myself and next step was the gearbox. It's not that heavy out of the car, but as I found out, when you're lying on your back in a cramped space, it suddenly becomes very heavy indeed. An hour or so later I had it bolted into the PPF (brace between the gearbox and diff to transmit the torque - basically a torque tube minus the tube bit) and supported on a jack.
Then greased the splines and thrust bearing slider, fitted the clutch fork and thrust bearing:
Now mid day my gf was back and we made a start on the dropping the engine in.
Quickly realised that wasn't going to workand changed the way the engine was hung, adding a strap to the back of the block so we could control the tilt.
Unfortunately the best angle we could get between the engine and the gearbox was about 30* as the sump was hitting the subframe. Gah.
So that's not going to work. Lets get that subframe out the way.
That's better!
Now we could get the engine lined up pretty well to the gearbox, but were spending ages trying to get the input shaft splines into the friction plate. We'd push the two together as far as they'd go, rotate the engine... and nothing. Couldn't feel the splines through the crankshaft or anything. I imagine some of you will have worked out where I'm going wrong here...
Tried this multiple times before asking a friendly neighbour who's a professional mechanic (and come to think of it, had to lend a hand on my last clutch change too...). He's really helpful, had a look, popped the box in gear (That's where I was going wrong - I was in neutral!) lined the engine up to where we'd put it before and had me spin the crank. Clonk. splined alingned and the flywheel disappeared into the bellhousing. Well that was easy - when you know how. I promised him a go when it's up and running!
Subframe in next and bolt the engne mounts in... woah, not so fast. These engine mounts don't exactly line up. Left hand mount bolted in nicely, leaving the right hand mount about 1cm back from where it needed to be. the position of the engine is being dictated by the PPF bolted to the gearbox. With these bolts very loose, I pulled the engine mount into place with a ratchet strap and bolted it in. I am a bit worried about the shear being placed on the engine mount though. Lots of people who have done the rocketeer swaps have found they've needed to slot the subframe mouting points a little to make it fit. I think because I didn't bolt the engine to the subframe before fitting, I've found the same issue in a different place - my suspicion is that the brackets for the engine mounts don't put the mounts quite in the right place. I'll ask Rocketeer but their standard answer is that "all the brackets are correct" - as I send them pictures that show they are clearly not 'correct'.  (They've never been far out to be fair, but most have required a bit of fettling)
Enough words...
IT'S IN! (shhh....)
Productive Saturday... the rest will have to be in another post though!
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piguin
Part of things
Posts: 136
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Sept 24, 2019 8:03:35 GMT
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Yay! Engine in is a milestone indeed Really enjoy reading your step to step posts with all the issues that you are facing and resolving. The next post is when exactly?  |
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Sept 24, 2019 14:08:30 GMT
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The next post is when exactly? That would be now Slight break from the engine, my gf set the ride heights and preload on the new (second hand, but hardly look it) HSD coilovers.  These came without dust covers on the rear, so bought a new pair of those from Driftworks. She fitted these on the rear while I was removing the old harness, cleaning, and adding a blanking plate to the fuel rail.  That got fitted back in the car - although it will all have to come out again for both harnessing and rocker cover repainting. Next up was plumbing in the coolant circuit. A full set of custom silicone hoses come with the Rocketeer kit for this... and pretty much every one needed cutting down to make it fit! Popped a radiator in to help with fitting - I've got a thicker one for the final install, but this one was more accessible.  The final routing at the front of the engine looks a little bit like this:   That black inline section front and centre is the thermostat and sensor housing, which is all well and good, but you can make out the T piece which goes off to the heater matrix about 20cm closer to the block than the thermostat. This means that when the thermostat is closed, there is no flow anywhere near it, or near the temperature sensors for the ECU or instrument cluster, so the engine is going to get pretty toasty before either the ECU, Gauge, or thermostat catches up. Not the best solution. As a workaround, the advice is to drill three 3mm holes in your thermostat. Excellent...  There are two more slight issues with the thermostat housing. It contains the bleed screw for the coolant system, however as there isn't space for all the sensors to stick straight up out of it (plus it would look rather ugly), this bleed screw sits half way down the housing. I suppose bleeding is a case of loosening the clips and twisting it round (minor complaint but there you go). Final issue I have is that the temp sensor for the gauge is a single pin. This means that it has to ground through the chassis, but it's screwed into an aluminium housing supported between two sections of silicone hose... So what's its ground path? Through the coolant. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Anyhow, exhaust next!  Shiny And never had to opportunity to look inside a brand new cat before...   The back box is a dual exit one - it's actually just the standard MX5 Parts dual exit back box. This needs a slight bumper cut. First made a templace from the other side and gave a rough outline:  Rough it out with tin snips:  Then move on to the milling bit on the dremel and clean it up a bit more. Test fit:  Not quite... Bit more cutting, and a fair bit of time smoothing off the edges to a nice finish - but it doesn't look like I took any pictures of that. Have the final fit picture instead.  Even managed to hang the exhausts relatively straight - helped a lot by the spherical style joins further up the exhaust allowing a lot of adjustment. Aaand the Rocketeer money shot - Intake plenums test fit!  Hmm. May have gone overboard with the photo filters on that picture. So, did they fit? Well not quite.  That pesky bit poking out of the rocker cover is the PCV valve, and it wants to sit in the same space as the intake plenum. How about if I remove the 90*?  Closer, but nope. Balls. I've asked Rocketeer about it, turns out it's a known issue, it doesn't fit and they're working on a solution but they'll let me know when they find one. Would have been nice to know that earlier as I could probably have carried the PCV over from the old engine that sits between the heads and blocked off the problem PCV. Unfortunately that can't be done with the heads in place. Next up was plumbing in the fuel hoses - Kit was supposed to contain two 1m sections of 10mm ID hose. Actually came with two 50cm lengths which has left me a little short so fuel hose is on order. It was also supplied with standard jubilee clips for the high pressure lines which is probably ok, but wouldn't pass an IVA inspection (not that I need one) so proper fuel hose clips are on order too... No photos of that bit I'm afraid. Steering hoses. The PAS pump has moved a bit in the engine bay compared to where it used to sit, but most of the pipes reached with a little chopping and convincing. The main high pressure hose from the pump to the rack was far too long and I didn't think it was going to work for a while - but gf to the rescue, she managed to work out where it needed to sit. Could still do with being a bit shorter mind.  A few other little issues encountered: Alternator. This is mounted on the same bracket as the right hand engine mount. This is quite a long bracket that hooks around the cam chain cover, then bolts into the block further back. It seems that on this engine brackets that go between the cam chain cover and the block don't fit. This one sat a couple of mm too far back on the block so I slightly bent the section that hooked around the cam chain cover to line the bolt holes up. In doing so, I bent the alternator mount out of alignment - I didn't really think that one through! A bit more manipulation got it pretty straight again. A ruler said the pulleys lined up, but my eyes keep telling me different. As well as alignment, the alternator sits just above the power steering pipes, and to tension the belt it hinges downwards... right into the power steering hard pipes. I know I'm not the first to have this issue, and I think a shorter belt will fix it, but it's been a known issue for ages which feels like it should have been fixed in the kit by now. No photos I'm afraid! Vacuum hoses - there is one balancing hose that goes across the front, between the two intake plenums and doesn't fit around the CVVT engine's oil filler. Once I've worked out exactly what needs to be connected to the vacuum system I'll see if I can move this to the back ot the engine.  Filler cap - as I've said before this sits a bit higher on the CVVT engine than the VVT engine. Rocketeer said it would clash with the bonnet stiffening and I though I'd be able to bend or cut a bit of that for clearance. Turns out it actually hits the bonnet skin, but only just. The filler cap itself is in two parts, glued together. Popping the large cap off reveals just the sealing section that sits in the filler neck. With just this in place the bonnet closes with about 5mm clearance. I just need to print something that sits inside it and provides some method of twisting it.  Throttle cable - This surprised me a bit, the brackets are too short for the throttle cable! Need to order a new end nipple for it so I can shorten it.  Clutch - Earlier in the thread I think I said that I had initially left the clutch slave cylinder plumbed in, then received the Rocketeer instructions which said to remove it, which I did. Then I realised that although a clutch hose was ticked off in the kit checklist I didn't actually have one. Asked Rocketeer and was told they don't supply one and just use the original. Frustraiting, but righty-oh, original got partly refitted before the engine went in. Once the engine was in I found out that the kit had removed the mounting points for the original clutch line... So I've now got a stainless master to slave cylinder hose on order which I suspect should have been in the kit in the first place. I think that's about it with little issues. I found yet another part I hadn't realised I needed to buy, which is an idle control valve from a Mk2 MX5... Some relatively small improvements in the kit instructions would save an awful lot of time and annoyance. As the instructions are the're split into two parts - the PDF online, and then individual instruction sheets with different bags of bits. I had read through the PDF before starting, but not each of the 20odd individual sheets. By Monday evening I was at a point where all of the jobs left were waiting on parts, so I gave the car a wash and clay. The paintwork was filthy! Especially the headlight covers for some reason. It got dark as I was finishing the claying, but it's already looking a little less pink  I've found a fair few issues with the Rocketeer kit in this post which probably comes across as quite negative. Most of the issues really are minor and I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, however the kit costs a fair amount, and I think I'm on the third revision of it by now and part of me feels that most of these are pretty basic issues that should have been caught and fixed. Where they haven't been fixed they should at least be noted in the instructions (Which themselves are probably the weakest link in the kit). On the plus side, Rocketeer are good with offering support on the whole, answering questions well outside working hours! The overall quality of the kit is superb, but details here and there appear to have been missed and there is room for improvement. I have no regrets though - If you ignore some of the lead time for parts and a weeks holiday, I've gone from having a car and an engine to having an engine in the car mostly plumbed in in a couple of weeks of evenings and weekends, which I'm rather happy with. So what's still left to go... - refit front suspeinsion - waiting until I definitely don't need access - ECU and Harness - I'm waiting on Rocketeer to finish the CVVT engine tuning still - Solution for PCV Valve - 3D print filler cap cap - Finish routing fuel lines - waiting on hose and proper fuel line clips - Finish vacuum routing - Sort throttle cable and balance throttle bodies - Clutch line and bleed - waiting on parts - Wire in alternator and starter motor, ground strap the engine - Work out how to hide away excess original harness - Arduino or simmilar to give an oil pressure reading. I have some little 1.7" OLED displays that I have some plans to turn into digital gauges, need a programming lead for them though. - Fit proper radiator and cooling fan - New front wings and refit bumper - Refil all fluids - engine oil, coolant, gearbox oil, diff oil, brake and clutch fluid, petrol.... - ... - ... - ... - MOT? - ... - ... - ... - Blend in rear arch repairs and repaint rear arches - and possibly more! - Get the underside properly cleaned and re-undersealed This list is getting too long, I'm stopping it there! |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Sept 24, 2019 17:04:53 GMT
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Hopefully it's worth the effort, we've had a bloke in at work today who is "developing" a kit to fit a 2JZ into a RX8. Had a look round the car and nearly wet myself laughing, it's bloody awful. Think the photos he gets likes on Instagram or whatever on must be from half a mile away through a lense covered in vaseline.
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Sept 24, 2019 21:43:23 GMT
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Hopefully it's worth the effort, we've had a bloke in at work today who is "developing" a kit to fit a 2JZ into a RX8. Had a look round the car and nearly wet myself laughing, it's bloody awful. Think the photos he gets likes on Instagram or whatever on must be from half a mile away through a lense covered in vaseline. Honestly i think the kit is pretty good (so far!). The quality and finish on everything is excellent, it's just as you get into the details that things are occasionally a bit off. Part of the issue for mine is that the kit was developed for the earlier VVT engine, not the CVVT engine, and I think they said it would work for the CVVT engine before actually trying it themselves. That last post is a list of the issues I had because otherwise it would just be, and I connected this to this, and this to this, and on the whole it all went together.
There are certainly areas for improvement... but I think part of the issue is I had expected the kit to be a bit more plug and play than it is. None of the fixes have been major or difficult, they simply don't quite match the sales pitch.
I've seen a few cars with the conversion done, and it never fails to look good. The main teething issues they had were with the ME ecus, and these so far do seem to be sorted with the MBE units, even if they give no diagnostics  (Initially I took the stance that I wouldn't buy an ecu with no accessible diagnostics... They seemed to concede that it was a good point and said I could buy it as an upgrade when they've implemented it, which grated a bit!)
Always did want an RX8... (although not nearly as much as an FD 7). Rather cool body that can be bought for peanuts. I had had thoughts towards an EV swap into one, but the costs added up far too fast!
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Last Edit: Sept 24, 2019 21:47:41 GMT by gryphon
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Well it's been a while, I've got some little bits done. I've also bought the final things I'll need to get the car going... I hadn't expected fluids to cost so much! And spark plugs add up for 6 cylinders too. Over £150 on oil and £50 on spark plugs later I think I'm done shopping... Rocketeer have also been busy and have finished off the mapping for the CVVT engine! Great news, when can I have an ECU? "February." Erm... What?! That's 6 months after they initially said I would have one. To be fair part of that was me not wanting to pay the invoice until they actually had something to give me and as a result they sold 'my' ecu to someone else. Thankfully after essentially asking how much extra I'd have to pay to get one sooner, I should now have one by the end of November (and without paying extra). So, end of November is my new target for being ready wire up and start the car
They also sent me a shorter belt for the alternator, PCV blanking plug and the extra fuel hose (that they'd missed from the kit originally) FOC which was nice.
Biggest issue I had from putting the engine in was having to pull it forward to make the engine mounts line up. The engine is suspended between the two mounts either side to the subframe, then by the power plant frame (PPF) at the back of the gearbox. Essentially the PPF was holding the gearbox too far rearward for the engine mounts to want to slot into place. I used a ratchet strap to pull them into place in the last post - shortly afterwards I unbolted the PPF expecting it to 'ping' back when I pulled the bolts out, but it didnt. I left everything unbolted to settle for a week, went back to it and it all bolted into place happily - although I gained a couple of mm from the diff end of the PPF which might have made the difference.
A couple of the parts I needed were an idle control valve and TPS from a 1.8 NB MX5. The parts new cost a small fortune, but a 1.8 throttlebody with both attached was about £20 posted...
One TPS:
And fitted:
ICV was a bit rough, but cleaned up and bolted onto a little block that takes an air intake from a separate little filter at the back of the engine then feeds the controlled air into the back of the intake plenums:
The same bracket holds the MAP sensor for the ECU. (mismatch between bracket and part again, just needed a new hole drilled though)
And in place at the back of the engine:
The new alternator belt supplied was an 815mm one (as against original 830mm) and unfortunately was too short! The alternator really doesn't have much range of movement... I ordered an 825 belt and that one seems to have done the trick, but the alternator still sits close to the power steering hard pipes - if the engine moves enough to hit them I'll try an 820. No pictures I'm afraid 
On the PCV issue, I spent a fair bit of time reading up how the system worked and started another thread here. Rocketeers solution was to drill a new hole in the rocker cover and put the valve in across the head, pointing downwards:
From looking at my PCV valve it didn't look like this would give the same behaviour as it depended on gravity to act on the internal weight, but I bought a new one and did some testing with a definitely good, and non-oily one. Testing that mostly involved sucking air through it at different angles.... and sketching my findings on the back of envelopes that were handy:
^Y axis is 'restriction'. No idea why I didn't do flow....
Findings were that when the valve is a little over horizontal it's held in the partially closed position and never opens, as it does under medium vacuum when upright. It probably doesn't massively matter as there would still be some breathing... But I'd like to do it properly. I've found a SAAB PCV valve that appears to rely on a spring rather than gravity and isn't fussy about orientation, but I'm still waiting for it to arrive!
I cut the old PCV in half and with a little heat managed to push a section of 8mm fuel hose into it which lets it twist into the original mounting point without clashing with the plenum: (Turns out there is a spring in there, but it's not engaged except under high vacuum - I think to stop the valve wedging itself closed)
Just waiting on the SAAB part....
Other small bits - new clutch slave cylinder and braided hose fitted: I think I need to get some heat shielding there - the exhaust runs very close.
The slack throttle cable which had been left like this because the bracket was a bit too short:
And was fixed by rotating the cam on the throttlebody. I felt like an idiot when that had to be pointed out to me!
And there it is in place with the link cable that goes to the left hand throttle body, except that:
Because of how far around you need to rotate it to get cable tension there's now a clash between one cable end and the end stop for the throttle that makes a nice 'clack' as you come off throttle. Ok, file it down, easy fix, but come on, get the bl**dy brackets the right length in the first place! I know I didn't get the first batch of these brackets either...
On the subject of Rocketeer attention to detail, the kit has been developed around a late Mk1 car - i.e. same as mine - so why on earth on around the 3rd revision of the kit does the air filter press onto the headlight motor?
You can 'fix' this by twisting the filter and putting it on at an angle... which looks pants, but it's what they do for the turnkey conversions. Ah well, can't imagine they're keen on re-tooling for the plenums.
As the weather is getting worse and the salt is coming out, I'm loosing the garage It's going back to being a winter home for a Lotus. As the car is currently blocking the garage I need to get it back on it's wheels. Front coilovers ready:
Because I have a strong suspicion the HSD's are going to be a bit hard for my tastes I figured a set of coilover bags would probably pay for themselves when it came to selling the coilovers on... and if I keep them, should keep them working for a bit longer at least.
First fit: That hub looks a little too high for unloaded position...
(oh yeah, I put the old wings and bumper back on - mainly to make room in the garage)
Yeah, probably going to sit lower than I'd like - and if I drop it on it's wheels I need to be able to get a jack back under too. Generally I'd drive it up onto some bits of wood, but I don't fancy pushing it onto said wood! I went with a ~20mm rise on the fronts from that. All suspension is re-fitted, but I ran out of time today to actually get wheels on and drop the car.
I had some other distractions though:
The other MX5 is now on it's winter wheels - the konigs pictured will go on mine for now, and from a quick test fit I think they're going to look excellent against the red... shame they're not mine!
The other red car on the axle stand has also been taking up time... although more of my girlfriends time than mine. One of our neighbours picked two of them up (free) for his kids, apparently just needing new batteries and we volunteered to get them running. A blown fuse, broken wire to a motor and quite a few rebuilt switches later and they both work! The one above is masked up to have a bit re-chromed with some chrome paint that's been knocking around since I tried to re-chrome an indicator reflector with it (don't even bother trying). Should do for this though.
Hopefully the twins enjoy them!
The blue Astra in the background is courtesy of my new neighbour, who parked it there, asked if it was in anyone's way - I pointed out he was blocking two other neighbours garages and wasn't leaving me much space to work on the mx5 - and it's been sitting there sorn'd ever since. Nice to meet you too
And now that I'm loosing the evenings for working outside on the car I get to spend more time doing things like learning how to fit new tyres to another of my partners projects: Not all that much different to mountain bike tyres, just bigger tyre levers and a bit more cursing involved. Before anyone says anything, I put the front tyre on backwards, I know. Need to take it off again.
Managed not to pinch the tube at least |
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Last Edit: Nov 3, 2019 22:37:52 GMT by gryphon
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Some great work there, It looks like your almost ready to fireup and just waiting on the ECU.
I havent really followed the Rocketeer kit but I'm surprised they are selling a kit with this many issues.
I was a bit jelous when they first announced that they were doing a bolt in kit for the mx5 as i have done a similar 3l v6 swap into my MR2 and everything on that had to be custom done or diy.
Looking back through the issues you have had now i think i prefer having to do it all myself.
Awaiting the next update
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Nov 13, 2019 11:09:18 GMT
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Some great work there, It looks like your almost ready to fireup and just waiting on the ECU. I havent really followed the Rocketeer kit but I'm surprised they are selling a kit with this many issues. I was a bit jelous when they first announced that they were doing a bolt in kit for the mx5 as i have done a similar 3l v6 swap into my MR2 and everything on that had to be custom done or diy. Looking back through the issues you have had now i think i prefer having to do it all myself. Awaiting the next update Thanks All the parts in the kit are good quality and made to a high standard, but it feels like the design was put into production without being fully proved out. It does all fit together but it does still need further refinement - which it is getting, slowly but surely. If it hadn't been advertised as an everything worked out, 100% bolt in kit it wouldn't really be an issue. They also drop in that the main designer works for McLaren which sounds good, but I think a review with an automotive CAD engineer would have picked up on lots of issues - The kit isn't toleranced particularly well (i.e. they forgot that powder coating has a thickness that needs to be accounted for), clearance zones went out the window, let alone 10mm static 20mm dynamic, sub-frame is full of water traps, heat shielding components such as clutch slave cylinder from the exhaust which passes very close doesn't seem to have been considered etc etc. It is also very easy to criticise and pick faults when I'm just the numpty bolting it all together. I wouldn't be happy with a few of the aspects of the kit if I had designed it, but the the reality is that I didn't - Rocketeer have developed a kit that does most of what it says on the tin and have managed to make a business and garnered a decent brand recognition for themselves in the space of a few years. There are definitely areas for improvement but they do seem to be working on them, and even if I don't always agree with the advice they give they do try hard on the customer support front. Would I have been able to do this without the kit? No. Does the kit have issues? Undoubtedly, but nothing that can't be fixed easily enough. Should I stop grumbling? Probably! Anyway, back to the car - It's sitting back on it's own wheels!  And even with the extra 20mm the front is still too low :/ While swapping the wheels between the cars I took the opportunity to add the correct spigot rings too:  They'd been used without them on the other car - I don't think I knew what a spigot ring was when we bought the wheels a couple of years ago - thanks owed to slaters wheel fitment thread! Prior to dropping it the brakes and clutch were bled but that was about it... Still lots of bits to sort out, but at least I can move it out of the way of the garage now. More shopping done, ordering lots of P clips to sort out the various cable, harness and hose routings and a lot of yellow passivated spring clips to replace the jubilee clips that are everywhere and look nasty. I've settled on a PCV solution. The SAAB valve arrived and I found out it was just a check valve. Ah well. So, I'm back to using the Jag PCV. I have the 10mm(or maybe 8mm?) fuel hose fitted into the body of the old PCV valve as per last post. I'll mount the new PCV on a P-Clip, vertically on the back of the head and feed that back into the intake. Turns out it's virtually what Jag's OEM solution was on the earlier engine! To make it work I need a couple of bits of tube with stepped diameters, and helpfully it seems that an old bit of coolant hose removed form the 944 a few months ago has exactly the right steps in it. Won't be elegant but should be functional. I've also been looking at making this a bit nicer:  I would like the cable ends to sit at 3 o'clock. Obvious answer is to shorten the cable. I bought a new cable end for it... Then decided that a new bracket would be a more fitting solution, keeping the trend of leaving as much stock as possible. Put one together in CAD, spent more time checking and double checking measurements and clearances than I'd care to admit, and looked at quotes to get it laser cut. To make the cost reasonable I'd need to do a batch of them so I've asked if anyone else is interested, only one bite so far so might not happen. (But I should be able to get one roughed out on a plasma cutter if nothing else)  As well as taking up the extra cable slack this one should put the cables properly inline with the throttle cam (Rocketeer ones come in at a small angle) and mount the stock throttle cable in it's rubber bush - which again, the original bracket doesn't. Still not really sure why I'm not just shortening the throttle cable. Common sense might be failing me. |
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Last Edit: Nov 19, 2019 21:11:04 GMT by gryphon
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Nov 19, 2019 12:59:08 GMT
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Busy weekends have left me doing bits on cold evenings with a head torch... Lots of little tidying up jobs. P-Clips on hoses and wiring, replacing Jubilee clips with hose clips in places, rerouting the throttle cable to reduce the bends in it etc, which all takes far longer than I'd like. Every time I breathed out I hid whatever I was working on under a cloud of steam... and it's only November!  It's feeling a little more complete, although the only progress you can really see in that picture is the washer bottle being back in. On a more exciting note, I have some brackets fresh from the plasma cutter! Always nice to hold something you've drawn up in CAD.  It has a better cutting resolution than I was lead to believe. A bit more tidying up required, but I'll check they actually fit first |
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Last Edit: Nov 19, 2019 18:43:52 GMT by gryphon: Fixed Pictures!
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,887
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Nov 19, 2019 17:10:52 GMT
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Doing a good job here, working through the niggles of getting this engine in right. It certainly looks like the kit you've got make all the big stuff nice and easy, just a shame they haven't worked out all the bugs yet. I guess to me if I were paying for a 'professional' kit, rather than some back yard hobbyists kit, then that's the sort of things I'd expect them to have worked out for me. Still, I think it's great that kits like this are out there. When I was looking at engine swaps into my first Mx, about 10 years ago (blimey I'm old!), the only solution was to make something up yourself. It's gonna be great when it's done, I'm sure. Can't beat the smiles that Mx5s put on your face, and with v6 sounds, even better! |
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Nov 19, 2019 19:42:51 GMT
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Completely agreed goldnrust . I see from your signature that your MX5 had a few lives! Sounds lots of fun. Well, bracket went in, and on the primary throttle body did everything I wanted it to: Throttle cable runs a bit close to the brake fluid reservoir behind it, but that can be fixed. It also proved out that my mounting for the stock throttle cable worked. Measurements said it would, my eyes said it wouldn't, but actually it's very secure. The original bracket didn't use it. Unfortunately I hadn't worked through the affects that lengthening this bracket would have on the secondary throttle body. The link cable is of course correctly lengthed to the original brackets, and was now a bit on the short side. Adjusting things to make as much slack as possible with my bracket got it all connected, but now at 3/4 throttle the cable end clashed with the closed end stop on the secondary TB! I've just moved the problem to the other side Despite the 360 degrees adjustability of the the cams on the throttle bodies, due to the tiny clearance between the cam and the end stops there is actually only a 90 degree window of useable adjustment. Easily fixable, I just made my bracket too long. V2 coming up. Bah. That put me off working in the cold this evening... I have coding I can do for the oil pressure display in the warm!
On a brighter note, someone else has received the ECU that I have been told is all locked down and protected. He plugged in the cable and found it all open and accessible. I like the sound of that, hopefully mine is the same!
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Last Edit: Nov 19, 2019 19:52:34 GMT by gryphon
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Nov 20, 2019 22:07:55 GMT
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Shock horror, a post with no mechanical or vehicular content!
True to the last post though, I did finally start looking at how I was going to do the oil pressure (and eventually oil temperature) display. A handy bit of skip diving a year or so ago bagged me 5 little 1.7" full colour OLED displays and I've had it in my head to do something like this with them ever since. The good bit about them being OLED is that there is no backlight, so at night I won't have a glowing grey square with a gauge in it, I'll just have the graphics with perfect black elsewhere. They have some quite spectacular screen burn in the middle of each screen from their past life so they really were fit for the bin, but if I have a black background it's not very obvious at all.
The downside of these screens is that they aren't the most user friendly, as they're programmed in a language unique to the company that sells them that is similar to C, with a bit of Basic thrown in, and definitely twists my brain at times. An evening of reading the language reference document and playing with examples got me sort of up and running.
Honestly I'm not sure how much interest there will be in this, but I'll give a quick description of what I'm doing just in case
There are two ways of putting pictures on the screen. One is to draw them in code with rudimentay tools such as draw a line from pixel(x,y) to pixel(x2,y2), and other basic shapes. The other option is to generate images in photoshop, package them onto an SD card and call them up on the display.
My first attempt has been to draw everything in code. It's not very pretty but it's starting to give me ideas of what I can do and what it could look like:
( link in case the embedded video isn't working)
The row of 5 screens is a bit wider than a standard headunit. I might be able to squeeze them tight enough together, or may have to drop down to 4. Hide them all behind a lightly tinted sheet of acrylic and a 3d printed surround/backing, fit it in above the radio and it might look good, or might just look horrendously out of place!
It is quite limited though, and there is a lot of flicker with screen updates. This is because it's a single buffered screen, i.e. with each line of 'drawing' code you are directly drawing to the pixels on the screen. An analogy would be if I was drawing it in pencil on paper, I'd draw a needle pointed at 10%, then another at 20%. Now I have 2 needles drawn on my gauge. For it to work, before drawing the next needle I have to get my rubber out, rub out the first needle and then draw the second. In code terms, I draw each needle twice, once in white, then when I need to move it, draw over it in black, then draw a white one. When I do this, there is a short period of time that no needle exists, giving a fair bit of flicker. If the screen were double buffered, I could draw the new needle in the buffer, calculate the difference between the current screen and the one in the buffer, then just write the differences to the screen - which is much more like how the screen you're reading this on is working! (at a very high level at least)
Anyhow, next I need to see what the capabilities with pictures loaded from photoshop are, because I doubt I'll get a look I'm very happy with from the current method!
Conveniently each display has an analogue input which I can feed the output from pressure and temperature sensors into with minimal circuitry, and a couple of digital inputs, which I could use to dim them when I turn the lights on for night driving, no extra hardware required.
Enough of that electrickery stuff, next update will have bits of metal in it, promise! |
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Last Edit: Nov 20, 2019 22:13:55 GMT by gryphon
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Nov 20, 2019 22:44:58 GMT
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Loving the coding efforts
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Well that bit of electronics proved unexpectedly popular. I'll keep you updated! For the throttle cable bracket, I think it's going to be better to get some longer bolts and just space the original bracket out by two nuts. Not going to look pretty but should to the job. I just need to get my hands on a couple of longer M8 bolts Next big step is ECU and harness at the end of the month... Except is is the end of the month and they're not here! New date is a week or so away. I've started the prep for it anyway so off come the intake manifolds again.
I still hadn't sealed the rocker covers either as I was intending to repaint them. Seeing as I've not got that done I'm going to live with oddly coloured ones for now and seal them on. Dabs of sealant where needed, and as I'm reusing the old gasket I put a thin smear of sealant over the sealing surfaces. I also spent a little more time on the PCV valve, mounting a new jag valve vertically at the back of the LH Head using various bits of pipe and hose to make it work. You can't accuse it of looking elegant. That's an old section of coolant hose from my Porsche 944 that was a perfect adapter between the OD of the PCV valve and the 16mm OD of some spare fuel line. Turns out the fuel line isn't actually flexible enough though, so some silicone is on the way. The P Clip came from somewhere in the MX5 engine bay when I dismantled it and I thought it would work to clamp the PCV valve in place. Well, not quite. The PCV valve pulled out easily, and also had quite a large air leak! Round peg in a tear drop hole so to speak. Attempt two, even less pretty but far more air-tight: Could have a tug of war with that now. Last piece of the puzzle is a hose to go from the 15mm PCV valve outlet to the 10mm barb on the plenum, which is in the post.
Next on the list was getting some heat protection in where the exhaust runs very close to the starter motor and clutch slave cylinder. We have a sheet of dimpled aluminium heat shield material that is going to be used for making a heat shield between the exhaust manifold and supercharger on the other MX5 when we get around to that, so I used a little bit of that. It was really easy to get into shape. In lieu of good fixing points I used the lower bolt from the slave cylinder and a cable tie to the solid part of the clutch hose. Not I deal but will definitely help. The starter had even fewer good mounting points, so ended up with a section wrapped around the solenoid, being the bit closest to the exhaust: Excuse the bad pictures.... As I couldn't find the metal cable ties which I have a bag of somewhere, it currently has a plastic one holding it in place, with the shield bent so that it can't slide off. Possibly ok with plastic, but it will be swapped out when I find my metal ones! While I was doing this lot my girlfriend was sorting out the interior for me - which is pretty fair as it was in one piece before she decided to use my car to mock up the roll bar fit for hers! She went a few steps further though and vacumed it out, fit the stainless steel scuff plates, and replaced the gear stick seals. Also went to drain the oil from the gear box turret which is separate to the main gear box oil on this car, only to find it didn't have any in it! Seals might be a bit past their best... New Inner seal on - I didn't take any other pictures so this is the best you'll get! Once we found no oil at all in the gear box turret, we topped it up with the only opened spare gear oil I had, which was some Swepco 201 left over from the 944 transaxle oil change. This stuff is regarded as magic liquid to fix gearbox whine in the 944 circles, which it did do for mine to an extent... I call it liquid blue mozzarella which is far more accurate. Either way, the MX5 box shift feel (while stationary obviously, also with no gearbox oil...) has gone from horrible to silky. Although that could just be because the turret actually has oil, as against no oil, rather than the magical properties of liquid blue mozzerella. (Sorry, the porsche forums really do fawn over the stuff) I've ran out of photos now! Only other news is that I've finally ordered a pair of new wings. They're painted to the colour code though, so I might have a lot of polishing to do to bring the rest of the car close. Well, actually I'm a bit colourblind so probably won't notice it, it can just annoy everyone else!
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Last Edit: Dec 2, 2019 14:03:37 GMT by gryphon
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Nice work.....and very impressive IT skills to get those gauges to work!
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Nice work.....and very impressive IT skills to get those gauges to work! Thanks A fair part of my day job is spent coding - I've yet to use it in any of my cars though! I've also designed and sell data logging and telemetry kits for Greenpower racing (Quick plug - if any of you have school age kids this is an excellent series. The racing is slow but the engineering is excellent and entry is cheap, lots of races per year and on proper tracks. Seeing ~70 cars built and driven by school teams on the Silverstone start line is great)  ______________________ Enough plugging greenpower... I have pictures of a boring rusty battery tray for you. First though, I have an interior that actually looks functional, if a bit boring and black. I'd forgotten how comfy those seats were.   And before putting a battery back in I needed to address a bit of rust on the battery tray. Very common from what I can gather, and a previous owner had slapped some waxoil underseal type stuff over the area in the past - which I groan at now, but I know I did exactly the same to some areas of the 944 a few years ago thinking it was a good thing to do so I can't complain too much. As it was, then after a clean with scouring pad and brake cleaner which shifts the waxoyl quite well:   After cleaning it up with a drill and paint/rust remover wheel, then a wire brush for the awkward places I slathered on some Bilt Hamber Deoxy-C Gel and covered it in cling film to keep it wet... Although it's cold out and this car is very good at keeping its interior damp without any help from me! The gel is supposed to have a 60min working time. As it is so cold I left it on for about 24 hours. Just applied and after 24 hours. Pretty! Seems to be doing something at least   This all wiped off, was dried with paper towels and was given a layer of hydrate 80:   That's still drying. I'll follow up with some high build, flat back, and body colour. Won't be factory smooth but should look acceptable for an area that should never be seen! I need to clean off and do simillar to the other side of the panel though as that's got surface rust around the holes too. Lastly, a question:  (Excuse the overspray! Wasn't my doing and has been cleaned off since the picture was taken)Does anyone know if you can buy decent aftermarket hartop mounting 'pegs'? The factory ones are made of cheese as you can see from the phillips head (actually JIS, not phillips, which is probably part of the reason it's screwed... heh). They look easy enough to make, albeit replace the JIS socket with a hex head but to my surprise couldn't find any turned aftermarket ones. |
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Last Edit: Dec 25, 2019 23:23:34 GMT by gryphon
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It's coming along nicely,
I probably missed it but what are the seats from?
The std ones in our MK1 are on their last leg and I'm looking for alternatives.
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(They've never been far out to be fair, but most have required a bit of fettling)
(Initially I took the stance that I wouldn't buy an ecu with no accessible diagnostics... They seemed to concede that it was a good point and said I could buy it as an upgrade when they've implemented it, which grated a bit!)
