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May 12, 2019 11:05:00 GMT
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following on from the E polo thread, I was thinking about electric cars and I have always wondered..
is the servo vacuum created using an exhauster like on a diesel, but powered by electric motor?
how does the heater work on EV? a petrol/diesel uses its internal cooling system to bring heated coolant into the cabin, on an EV, there isnt any, so in the worst of a winter how do the people inside keep warm?
power steering, I assume electrical, or no power assist.
might be more to follow but please add your own!
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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e car questionsscimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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May 12, 2019 11:09:11 GMT
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I imagine an EV braking system is like the mk3 Granada (and probably many more by now) - no vacuum assist servo or master cylinder as we know them, just like an aircraft they had a pump to generate pressure and a shuttle valve to distribute it to the corners - pedal feel / feedback is set by a spring or friction device?
Heater and PAS must be electric?
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Last Edit: May 12, 2019 11:10:39 GMT by scimjim
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
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May 12, 2019 11:57:36 GMT
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Heating is electric and from what I understand, you have a choice of staying warm or reaching your destination!
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May 12, 2019 12:27:58 GMT
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Yeh mate as a i3 BMW we were out in it over winter, basically ended up putting heated seats on (apparently use less juice than the car heater) & then constantly wiping the steaming up windows by hand to see. Not bad for about a £40k car eh!!
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May 12, 2019 13:37:27 GMT
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don't you love progress ...!!
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
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May 12, 2019 13:50:24 GMT
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Wonder if a small wood burner would fit.....?
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
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May 12, 2019 13:51:52 GMT
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And then you can make a cup of tea.....perhaps even use the steam from the kettle to power the car. Think I've arrived back at 1900!
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Last Edit: May 12, 2019 13:58:35 GMT by andyborris
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May 12, 2019 14:16:42 GMT
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I know the vans at work have a heating option on the key so whilst it's charging you can heat/cool it using mains power (at least that's what I assumed it meant)
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
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e car questionsscimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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May 12, 2019 16:20:05 GMT
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Yeh mate as a i3 BMW we were out in it over winter, basically ended up putting heated seats on (apparently use less juice than the car heater) & then constantly wiping the steaming up windows by hand to see. Not bad for about a £40k car eh!! He needs the optional range extender - a 2 cylinder 650cc petrol engine in the boot 😀 Except they’ve stopped producing the range extender and there’s several court cases in America where it’s dangerously cut their speed from 70 to 45 because it couldn’t generate enough power quickly enough to cope!
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May 12, 2019 18:43:42 GMT
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Yeh mate as a i3 BMW we were out in it over winter, basically ended up putting heated seats on (apparently use less juice than the car heater) & then constantly wiping the steaming up windows by hand to see. Not bad for about a £40k car eh!! He needs the optional range extender - a 2 cylinder 650cc petrol engine in the boot 😀 Except they’ve stopped producing the range extender and there’s several court cases in America where it’s dangerously cut their speed from 70 to 45 because it couldn’t generate enough power quickly enough to cope! It has, I think it’s an engine BM put in one of their scooters, not sure. Does about another 80 miles on £6 of petrol, which is all it holds
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
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e car questionsscimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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May 12, 2019 19:44:50 GMT
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It is also a scooter engine - I use the oil filter from it on my zetec powered car due to space constraints 😀
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My '38 has a pressurised brake system, supplied by Wabco, and uses an electric pump.
It runs at silly pressures (the accumulator is charged with nitrogen at 1,160psi) and is a curse word to overhaul, passing leaks down the system as you go.
However, when working - like now - the brakes are fantastic.
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My neighbour's new Honda quadricycle has electric power steering. It has not been as reliable as a new machine should be. He's had it back to the dealer a number of times and they reckon they've fixed it now but they've said that before.
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Am I right in saying that even dedicated designs like the twizzy still use brake discs and/or drums?
I used to race 1/10 scale electric touring cars, the speed controllers had a way of variably shorting the motor for braking, if a similar system could be used (and relied upon...) it would save a fair bit of weight.
Much of the weight saved would be rotational, almost all of it would be unsprung, helping handling, ride, acceleration, range and ironically, braking!
I guess it would still need a handbrake/emergency braking system...
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adam73bgt
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e car questionsadam73bgt
@adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member 58
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May 13, 2019 13:17:40 GMT
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Am I right in saying that even dedicated designs like the twizzy still use brake discs and/or drums? I used to race 1/10 scale electric touring cars, the speed controllers had a way of variably shorting the motor for braking, if a similar system could be used (and relied upon...) it would save a fair bit of weight. Much of the weight saved would be rotational, almost all of it would be unsprung, helping handling, ride, acceleration, range and ironically, braking! I guess it would still need a handbrake/emergency braking system... EVs use a lot of regenerative braking which should mean you can scale down the size of the brake discs or drums However you still need to account for the scenarios where regen isn't available, if you happened to be up a mountain with a full battery for example so the conventional brakes are still important and need to be sized well currently
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May 13, 2019 13:49:01 GMT
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the 100% EV version of hundai kona weighs 450kg MORE than the petrol version.
i doubt they scaled down the brakes
diesels often use a vac pump incorporated into the alternator. mine has a dedicated vac pump driven by camshaft.
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Last Edit: May 13, 2019 13:51:49 GMT by darrenh
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adam73bgt
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e car questionsadam73bgt
@adam73bgt
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May 13, 2019 17:03:13 GMT
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Thats why I said "should mean". In theory having regenerative braking should mean you don't need as big conventional brakes but in reality there are instances where you can't count on regenerative braking. Plus the fact that batteries weigh quite a lot and yes you end up with as big, if not bigger brakes on BEVs, or chuck a different, higher performance pad material in Further to what I said about brake boost being generated electrically, BEVs and other modern cars are going a step further and having brake by wire systems where the pedal is mechanically decoupled from the generation of fluid pressure. This is quite key on BEVs as it means you have much better brake blending between regen and friction brakes, that is the brake pedal feel remains consistent and doesn't feel odd as you go from one to the other
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,214
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May 13, 2019 18:40:57 GMT
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Further to what I said about brake boost being generated electrically, BEVs and other modern cars are going a step further and having brake by wire systems where the pedal is mechanically decoupled from the generation of fluid pressure. This is quite key on BEVs as it means you have much better brake blending between regen and friction brakes, that is the brake pedal feel remains consistent and doesn't feel odd as you go from one to the other I was going to make a comment about French cars and wiring, having owned a few (still drive a 205), but I'm not sure it'll be funny. Having experienced "total" brake failure in a fully loaded Volvo 44 tonner, I'm nervous of any brake system that isn't totally mechanical and made from very strong steel...however on the funny side, Volvo electronics are very good, the first I knew of the failure was a message on the dash display saying " STOP IMMEDIATLY TOTAL BRAKE FAILURE "! New pants please nurse....
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May 13, 2019 21:00:27 GMT
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If you wanted to downsize the brakes and rely on regenerative braking, then for the times when the batteries are full you could dump the energy into a resistor and create loads of heat, which in winter could be vented into the car.
I'm no expert but have experience of some fast rotating machines in industry where they are braked using the same inverter that drives them dumping to a resistor.
Probably a bad idea due to extra weight that rarely gets used.
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