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May 10, 2020 13:20:09 GMT
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If it has something in the cylinder you should be able to feel it turning the engine over with the plugs out, it will go tight at tdc on one pair of cylinders. Great will try this!! would this apply even if its a flat washer? I no this is a non contact engine but not sure how big of a gap that means  Priced up new bolts and a gasket set from tickover and it only comes to £40 which isnt too bad. I guess I would need a new belt kit too. Would just need to blag a decent Torque wrench. Mine is a cheap one and I don't fancy its chances at something like this. These are old engines with non stretch bolts and iron heads if you wrench is 5% out it isn't going to be the end of the world, they are non interference because the combustion chamber is in the head but there are plenty of areas around the edges where there is very little gap at tdc. A new cam belt is a good idea if you don't know when it was last done but not essential given the lack of possability of the valves and pistons meeting. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,305
Club RR Member Number: 170
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May 10, 2020 14:10:54 GMT
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Given you are missing that plastic bushing in the carb, I wonder if that is your rattling.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,614
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May 11, 2020 16:03:32 GMT
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Amazon just delivered this. I'm supposed to be doing some work but curiosity tempted me outside to have a quick look.  At first I poked it down the inlet and didnt find anything. Took number 1 plug out and found this beauty... I wonder if it did much damage before getting to this point. I went back in there and couldnt find any more bits floating around. The washer is a bit bend though  Feeling very lucky at this point although I'm unsure if it did anything else. Will check the valve clearances soon.   Looks like it zonked the spark plug a little but nothing mega . I'm surprised after a couple of turns how sooted these plugs are again. I cleaned them up before all this and number one is near enough black again!  This is one of the plug i cleaned up prior to kicking it over for all of 2 min. plug 3 was cleaner lol.  |
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May 11, 2020 18:37:52 GMT
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That was lucky, hopefully there will just be a few small dents in the piston and head, I'd be inclined to check it turns freely with the plugs out, put it back together with a new plug, start it up and see how it runs, if you have a gauge you could try a compression test, but if not you will soon notice any major damage when you have it running by pulling a plug lead at a time and seeing if one cylinder has more effect than the others.
Plugs will normally be that colour after a cold start, they clean up when up to operating temperature / mixture.
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Last Edit: May 11, 2020 18:39:00 GMT by kevins
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May 11, 2020 22:26:39 GMT
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When I was about 13 I changed the plugs on my dads 2 litre Sierra which had a pinto engine, the top of the plug broke off and I thought it had fallen on the floor so didn't bother about it.
I put new plugs in and started it and there was a horrible noise and it was rattling like mad, my dad came out and fished the broken bit out of the cylinder but the engine was still noisy.
We stripped it down and found that the metal piece had compressed the piston on its edges in two places which was holding the rings in and allowing it to slap around in the bore.
Dad had a new piston fitted to the conrod and we put it all back together. It ran fine for many years after this.
If there is any noise or loss of compression its worth further investigation just to be sure that nothing has been damaged.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,614
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May 12, 2020 19:09:40 GMT
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When I was about 13 I changed the plugs on my dads 2 litre Sierra which had a pinto engine, the top of the plug broke off and I thought it had fallen on the floor so didn't bother about it. I put new plugs in and started it and there was a horrible noise and it was rattling like mad, my dad came out and fished the broken bit out of the cylinder but the engine was still noisy. We stripped it down and found that the metal piece had compressed the piston on its edges in two places which was holding the rings in and allowing it to slap around in the bore. Dad had a new piston fitted to the conrod and we put it all back together. It ran fine for many years after this. If there is any noise or loss of compression its worth further investigation just to be sure that nothing has been damaged. Wow thats a story! I'm guessing he was pretty annoyed? haha I can remember doing a few things to my Dads Escort and then Golf when I was a kid and my folks would hit the roof. I've just ordered a cheap Endoscope off amazon for £11. It comes with a magnet end and some other attachment . Didn't even know this was a thing or I would have just bought that!! I thought It might help if theres a bit of washer still stuck in there and for future mistakes. |
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,614
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May 15, 2020 17:17:29 GMT
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Today I sorted out the Valve Clearances and stuck it all back together (loving the blue valve cover). Not sure sure if its ok or not yet. Its back to the usual tricks of not firing up. It'll spin over, splutter and die, then spoke pours out the carb.  Annoyingly last week when I put it back together It did a bit of this but eventually ran pretty good untill the washer danced into No1 cylinder. I videoed these first starting attempts after everything that has gone on. I think it sounds ok and the horrible rattle when it dies I think is from the bonnet stay. You don't hear it when it briefly runs first time or when its cranking at the start plus, you can see it flexing. It cuts out so many times after it becomes a prominent feature but then again I duno yet. Might employ my misses to hold the bonnet open tomorrow You can see a big jet of spray/smoke shoot out the carb on the second try. I guess its just flooded after this? There is also a "tick" noise coming from the engine... guess it could be just cooling down slightly or an air leak. I focused on that and the choke/smoke at the end. What do we think so far? |
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May 15, 2020 17:33:01 GMT
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The blow back through the carb could be timing or just because the mixture isn't rich enough for a cold engine, is the choke working on it (is it manual or automatic?).
My MK2 Jag sometimes spits back through the carbs when its really cold and you put your foot on the throttle.
What have you altered/adjusted since the last time it ran ok?
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,614
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May 15, 2020 18:32:29 GMT
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The blow back through the carb could be timing or just because the mixture isn't rich enough for a cold engine, is the choke working on it (is it manual or automatic?). My MK2 Jag sometimes spits back through the carbs when its really cold and you put your foot on the throttle. What have you altered/adjusted since the last time it ran ok? Its an auto choke. Just had it all apart as the choke flaps have always been stuck. To be honest this isnt unusual. It was unusual that last week it started up fine after it got fuel. I actually thought I'd cracked it last week. I have a timing gun now to check the timing but cant get it to run to do that lol |
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May 15, 2020 19:21:07 GMT
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I'm pretty sure there is still something wrong with the choke, it should spring back freely, you might try a few squirts of easy start to get it going even if the cylinder with the washer had no compression it should start on the other 3. Ultimately though if you want it to work reliably I think it will need a carb re-build, years ago we had a 1600 ghia escort with a similar carb, I could never get it right, a rebuilt carb transformed it.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,614
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May 15, 2020 19:48:19 GMT
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I'm pretty sure there is still something wrong with the choke, it should spring back freely, you might try a few squirts of easy start to get it going even if the cylinder with the washer had no compression it should start on the other 3. Ultimately though if you want it to work reliably I think it will need a carb re-build, years ago we had a 1600 ghia escort with a similar carb, I could never get it right, a rebuilt carb transformed it. I'm with you, If I know its definitely the carb I'll get it sorted as its impossible to use at this point but, I just want to make sure there isnt anything else going on . |
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May 15, 2020 20:46:43 GMT
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My dad had a cortina and used to pump the throttle a dozen times before starting. One day the back box exploded. Must have been full of vapour. I think it's the carb, seeif you can get a cheap spare to try.
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May 15, 2020 21:43:19 GMT
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The blow back through the carb could be timing or just because the mixture isn't rich enough for a cold engine, is the choke working on it (is it manual or automatic?). My MK2 Jag sometimes spits back through the carbs when its really cold and you put your foot on the throttle. What have you altered/adjusted since the last time it ran ok? Its an auto choke. Just had it all apart as the choke flaps have always been stuck. To be honest this isnt unusual. It was unusual that last week it started up fine after it got fuel. I actually thought I'd cracked it last week. I have a timing gun now to check the timing but cant get it to run to do that lol If you haven't altered the timing recently then I would be tempted to leave it alone even if you check it and it seems wrong, generally in my experience you need to trace your steps back through what you did since it last ran well. It does sound like a carb fault, could you partially block the air intake on the carb to give a similar effect to the choke? |
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ZXRob
Europe
Posts: 1,200 
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Definitely sounds flooded man. Crank it over with your foot to the floor and it should start after a bit of spluttering and that. If it doesn't then spray easy start in there whilst your helper turns it over with the throttle held on full, watch out for it firing back through the carb though you don't want to loose your eyebrows!
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There were always manual choke conversion kits in car accessory shops in the 80s. So times I was waken up as a kid with cars turning over and over.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,614
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May 16, 2020 10:14:57 GMT
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I'll try to get back to this today. I feel for the neighbours lol If it didnt have that sports exhaust I think it would be less anti social. Probably one of the reasons I bought it though.
I've seen a Carb rebuild place in Essex that would do It for £150 and brand new Carb seems to be the best part of £200 wihtout the choke. Also seen a manual choke kit for £40 on ebay but, not sure if this would work with the carb the way it is. I'm wondering if it has the wrong jets in from the chart on the previous page, nothing made sense . Might be worth a rebuild. I'd love to be able to use this thing haha.
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May 16, 2020 11:18:03 GMT
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You can get all the parts and you can do it all your self and fit a manual choke if you want if you are not sure about cleaning the carb out before a re build soak in petrol overnight after you have stripped it that will desolve any goo that's in hard to reach drilling s if you want to blow anything out get a garden pressure spray the pump up type and just pump it up and that will give you a source of compressed air.
Do it all your self it will keep you busy and solve a problem and you will feel better when its done.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,305
Club RR Member Number: 170
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May 16, 2020 13:28:53 GMT
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I'd either get a new carb for the 2.0 Pinto or rebuild it yourself  . You have time on your hands and a great opportunity to learn things . |
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May 16, 2020 19:38:06 GMT
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Priced up new bolts and a gasket set from tickover and it only comes to £40 which isnt too bad. I guess I would need a new belt kit too. Would just need to blag a decent Torque wrench. Mine is a cheap one and I don't fancy its chances at something like this.
Feeling very lucky at this point although I'm unsure if it did anything else. Will check the valve clearances soon. 
Annoyingly last week when I put it back together It did a bit of this but eventually ran pretty good untill the washer danced into No1 cylinder. 
. You have time on your hands and a great opportunity to learn things