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Strangely enough, there is a lot less force than you might think in a strut top. Cannot remember where I read it but from memory (which is not my strong point!) I seem to recall that its the lower wishbone that carries all the forces. on a McPherson set up they carry different loads, the lower wishbone carries most of the fore and aft and lateral loads, the strut top most of the vertical loads, on severe events like braking into a pot hole they can see something like 6 x the static load. Are you politely saying i'm wrong?  I did say my memory is not great so happy to be corrected if I misinformed anyone. |
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You were right about 2 of the 3 axis, thats more than I ever am at home!
The vertical loads are very dependant on suspension tunnng, a soft spring with abrupt bump stop being about the worse and long travel with a proressive rate the best.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,878
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Ford 100eDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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The down fall of that sort of connection to the top tube will not be a shock force as it will just bend if the magnitude is high enough. The failure will likely be one of fatigue and cracking of the tube wall at the weld HAZ. What is required for this type of connection is one that converts the force from a point leverage on the side of the tube wall to a rotation of the whole upper tube in a torsion / bending combination - although a point load mid a beam is the greatest of force no no's in the design of a structure.
You will find that most suspension connections to a tube will place the weld of the bracket around the entire diameter of the tube (or as far as possible around the circumference) - 4 link onto an axle for example - you would not think of just welding a flat bar in line along the top and bottom of an axle tube and then connecting the link bars to it as you know they would in time just snap off. It also does not help if the joint is made longer as that just results in a failure of the bracket at some point along its length.
I don't know what the spring rate will be on that but if its a 250lb spring that will compress a couple of inches it will see continuous 0- 7001b force fluctuations and many times that in shock bump applications. As I cannot see a bump stop that could be an exponential increase at the limit of travel.
Also an easy test for the upper tube deflections - jack it up tie a piece of string between the suspension connections and then drop it back down and jump up and down on the front of the car to compress the springs - all good when that string does not budge.
Sorry for waffle.
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pork
Posted a lot
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The down fall of that sort of connection to the top tube will not be a shock force as it will just bend if the magnitude is high enough. The failure will likely be one of fatigue and cracking of the tube wall at the weld HAZ. What is required for this type of connection is one that converts the force from a point leverage on the side of the tube wall to a rotation of the whole upper tube in a torsion / bending combination - although a point load mid a beam is the greatest of force no no's in the design of a structure. You will find that most suspension connections to a tube will place the weld of the bracket around the entire diameter of the tube (or as far as possible around the circumference) - 4 link onto an axle for example - you would not think of just welding a flat bar in line along the top and bottom of an axle tube and then connecting the link bars to it as you know they would in time just snap off. It also does not help if the joint is made longer as that just results in a failure of the bracket at some point along its length. I don't know what the spring rate will be on that but if its a 250lb spring that will compress a couple of inches it will see continuous 0- 7001b force fluctuations and many times that in shock bump applications. As I cannot see a bump stop that could be an exponential increase at the limit of travel. Also an easy test for the upper tube deflections - jack it up tie a piece of string between the suspension connections and then drop it back down and jump up and down on the front of the car to compress the springs - all good when that string does not budge. Sorry for waffle. Think I know what you mean, especially with the 4 link example I’m not done with the front suspension yet, I needed the engine in first before I made a strut brace, with the brackets for the brace going around the tube and onto the spherical bearing housing plates........if that makes sense 😂 Have a crude child like sketch......  |
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pork
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Where is the guard on your angle grinder!
Difficult to make cars bits with no fingers. Nice header.
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Ford 100epeteh1969
@peteh1969
Club Retro Rides Member 107
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As said nice header, the only suggestion I would like to make it remove 1" from both ends of the full 180 bend pipe? Three reasons: 1, it will look a lot better. 2, it will give better clearance and airflow around the pipe (no hot spots where touching/no vibrations). 3, if you are going to wrap it with heat cloth it will be so much easier to do with a gap. All so re fit the grinder guard and use gloves when grinding. |
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Last Edit: Mar 6, 2019 19:31:05 GMT by peteh1969
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pork
Posted a lot
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Mar 13, 2019 20:49:34 GMT
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Ford 100epeteh1969
@peteh1969
Club Retro Rides Member 107
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Mar 13, 2019 22:46:53 GMT
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Great work there, is the cross tube going around the back or the front of the engine?
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pork
Posted a lot
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It’s going round the back, only route that had enough space,
Once it’s finished il get some pics of the clearance betweeen the tube and the engine
No room at the front, as need to have room for the radiator and some sort of intercooler
I looked at maybe going under the front of the sump, but I would t of worked either
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Ford 100epeteh1969
@peteh1969
Club Retro Rides Member 107
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Mar 14, 2019 11:56:33 GMT
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Ok
You can go for electric water pump and electric pump PAS both used on the Mk2 Focus ST that would save you room at the front of the engine.
Others have done it.
There is a historic rally Mk3 Cortina that has electric water pump from the ST.
There are plenty of options to save space out there.
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Ford 100epeteh1969
@peteh1969
Club Retro Rides Member 107
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Mar 15, 2019 16:16:39 GMT
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Some engine swap inspiration for you.
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pork
Posted a lot
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Apr 10, 2019 17:00:21 GMT
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Been a bit slow with the car. The wife has bought me a week in France fishing (gigantica, road lake) So been prepping for that.......fishing is expensive 😮😬 Got the rear arches, floor over the diff and boot panels made up and tacked in 👍    |
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Ford 100epeteh1969
@peteh1969
Club Retro Rides Member 107
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Apr 10, 2019 17:22:38 GMT
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Nice work, if you wanted you could even fit some small seats in the back.
Keep going up until you go away then have a good rest.
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pork
Posted a lot
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Apr 11, 2019 16:31:18 GMT
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pork
Posted a lot
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Back from France ......only the one carp in a week 😭😭😭 Oh well, back to the car........sort of, the wife’s got me decorating the house now 🤔😕 Managed a couple of hours, so started reconstruction of the bulkhead First had to cut away A LOT of rotten stuff  Then build it back up     Happy with it so far Once this is done, I need to flip the car over and do a ton of work underneath, so I guess il be getting a roll over jig 👍👍 |
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Back from France ......only the one curse word in a week 😭😭😭 Should probably introduce more fibre in to your diet, then. Or eat more prunes. :-P |
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Ford 100epeteh1969
@peteh1969
Club Retro Rides Member 107
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Nice progress with the bulkhead.
Have you checked the clearance for left, right and straight with the engine and box in or the equivalent weight in place as there is not much clearance without weight in it, which may go to none with all the weight in it.
Just my take on it.
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pork
Posted a lot
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Back from France ......only the one curse word in a week 😭😭😭 Should probably introduce more fibre in to your diet, then. Or eat more prunes. :-P Damn autocorrect 😂 Carp !! |
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pork
Posted a lot
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Nice progress with the bulkhead. Have you checked the clearance for left, right and straight with the engine and box in or the equivalent weight in place as there is not much clearance without weight in it, which may go to none with all the weight in it. Just my take on it. These aren’t the final wheels/tyres 👍 And the coilies are wound quote far down at the moment I’ve still got to sort the geometry on the front too....just temporarily in place so I could move the car around |
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I did say my memory is not great so happy to be corrected if I misinformed anyone.
