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Hi all,
Looking for a debate/opinion on what your opinions are for the best bulletproof engines.
Rules for this engine are: Must be a 4 cyliner Can be NA or turbo Must be around the 200bhp but can be modified to reach that but it’s how solid it is at about that figure. More power is ok but not needed really. So the question boils down to what 4 cylinder engine with around 200bhp can be driven hard on occasion without breaking.
All input welcomed
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Doyal
South West
Posts: 168
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K20A, F20C
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BMW E28 M535i dog-leg
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colnerov
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,879
Member is Online
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Saab 16valve family of engines.
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ken21
Wales
XR4i
Posts: 35
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YB
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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This will continue to get loads of responses! I'd look at what is simple to install as well; the MX-5 engines despite being bulletproof can have cooling issues due to the engine not being designed for a RWD layout, but there are mods done now and are available to correct this.
-Duratec HE; Not 200BHP but with external mods they can do it; they really were stifled from the factory. They are bulletproof engine with minimal maintenance required (biggest job is valve clearances every 100k), and there tons of bits to make it work reliably in a RWD format. -Clio 1x2 aka the F4R. 182BHP out of the box. Cams take you above that. 40MPG on a motorway is also impressive; it's something later Clio engines can't do, whether it's the later version (the 200, even though cammed 1x2 engines can) or even the 1.6 Turbocharged engines, despite the weight not going up much. They are also cheap. Downsides? The cambelt needs doing ever 5 years or 50k, along with the auxiliary belt and possibly the dephaser pulley if it is rattling. This can cost between £150-300 odd in parts alone and requires specific tools, albeit most people have these now -Honda K20A ; A sturdy engine. The 22 (the 2.2) can spin big ends, cited for its high piston speed, but it's not common, albeit not unheard of. J parts prices can be pricey too IME for bits that aren't junk. -Nissan SR20; These are sturdy but IMO there will be more turds out there due to many being thrashed and abused by the drifting fraternity. Buy one, but tread carefully. This does what you want out of the 'box however. -Cosworth YB; This engine needs no introduction; But they are now old and thanks to Cosworth prices getting pricier to buy by the minute.
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Saab B204. Without doubt.
Stock internals good for over 400bhp (easy) Easy to tune Stupid torque Bombproof never mind bullet.
I'd also chuck in
3SGTE (Toyota MR2, Celica mainly) BEAMS (Toyota/Yamaha Altezza) T16 turbo (Rover engine)
Tbf in stock form all the above 3 are reliable very good engines and only the 3SGTE and T16 (don't know enough about tuning a BEAMS) start to possibly suffer with HG and block issues when they're being pushed beyond that. If looked after and modded correctly they're both bullet proof engines and were fantastic pieces of engineering.
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Also think of ongoing availability of second hand parts, like Chas states on the YB's they are getting very expensive, also the older Vauxhall C20XE\LET's are expensive even when falling to bits even the K honda's are going up.
Myself would go for one of the later Honda R20\18's and fit low pressure turbo as the head has a built in manifold making turbo install very easy\compact, easy 200hp (most of the off the shelf kits run these to 300+ on stock internals) and will be properly bullet proof along with easy to get hold of as they have been in most of the Honda's since 2007ish. Also these are very light compared to the older cast iron block based engines.
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A reliable 200bhp isn't that much of a challenge, any factory turbo engine of 1.8l or more will make that all day. NA is slightly more challenging, but really any decent 4 valve 2.0 should manage without too much trouble. Yes you can wind 200bhp out of a 1.6 NA, but at the end of the day a 2.0 of the same power will be a much nicer engine.
I'd probably be looking at turbo engines to be honest because choo choo noises
4G63 - they run about 240bhp at 10psi and are properly hench from factory (well early ones at least). Should reliably take double that boost for around 350bhp depending on turbo. Can have issues with balance shafts, but they can be removed. Plenty of parts around if you want more, but this gets expensive quickly. SR20 - as above really, but in nissan flavour. C20LET - again, plenty strong enough for 200bhp. EJ20/22/25? - possibly not the 4cyl you were thinking of... 3SGTE - great engines, only really go wrong when abused VAG 20vt - 220bhp out of the box and 5 valves!!
honestly the list goes on...
What car is it going in?
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What about the volvo S40 T4 lump? 1850cc 200bhp and mine was reliable, racking up thousands of miles in a month.
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Another vote for the Saab B204 as found in the 9000 and 9-5.
They did 2.0 litre and 2.3 litre versions with varying power outputs (~150 - ~250 IIRC), both in N/A and turbocharged form.
They are bulletproof providing the correct oil fully synthetic oil has always been used.
Later "ecopower" units (like the one in my old 2005 9-5) are more efficient and more powerful than their predecessors in standard form.
This is because they have lightened internals - Great, but must be considered if tuning/modifying as they're not quite as capable of mega BHP compared to earlier units.
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1986 BMW 628csi, 2003 Alfa Romeo 147, 1992 Jaaaaag XJ40, 1982 BMW R100 cafe racer.
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B204's were only found in 9000 and 9-3 mate- later "eco" b205's were found in the 9-5's.
The earlier ones don't actually need religious fully synth changes- they really are extremely durable it's the later b205's that need it because the PCV system is curse word and the oil strainer gets blocked.
Either way though, as you say, they are great engines and there's a reason why so many of the Vauxhall lot shoe horn them in now.
The only downside is gearbox availability- because of the amount of torque they produce (they're very easily mapped) the power needs turning down so that the boxes can put the power down.
If someone figured out a bellhousing adapter to a strong getrag I think you could see some serious performance.
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I suppose it depends what it's going in, what it's being used for, how much abuse it needs to take, cost,and transverse or longitudinal.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,063
Club RR Member Number: 77
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I share joem83 sentiments as well, but I would personally go with the Ford/Mazda 2litre Duratec lump. Easy 200bhp with throttle bodies and applies the KISS principal
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B234R Saab motor, completely bombproof after a PCV update and as above good for 400bhp without opening it up.
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longman
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 507
Club RR Member Number: 3
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944 S2 S2000
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Last Edit: Jun 7, 2018 19:48:33 GMT by longman
Paul 98 500 SL 86 911 Carrera/sold 23 Octavia Phev
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cant believe nobody has offered an opinion on tdi? vag asz pd easily 200bhp and will feel alot quicker with the extra torque and as you mentioned "bullet proof" the earlier ve tdi's from vag like the alh or afh will run forever and a day with propa care and will return awesome mileage.
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Last Edit: Jun 7, 2018 21:35:59 GMT by usedabused: Added images
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Mercedes 2.3 Supercharged 4 pot engine?
I've seen MX-5 MK3 (MZR/Duratec) having premature big end failures, so I'm not entirely sure about their bullet proofness. However it is a nicely engineered and built engine.
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Click picture for more
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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cant believe nobody has offered an opinion on tdi? vag asz pd easily 200bhp and will feel alot quicker with the extra torque and as you mentioned "bullet proof" the earlier ve tdi's from vag like the alh or afh will run forever and a day with propa care and will return awesome mileage. Tempted, except: ECU choices; how many do PD engines bar using a factory ECU and cirmcumventing the immobiliser or tying the key up somewhere? 'Box choices? This may not be as bad as I think. Oil; They are super picky on oil IME and I personally have owned one with camshaft & tappet failure, which is more common than their 'bulletproof' suggestion would make out. Even VAG themselves updated the follower design many times over its life. Only VW505. 01 or 507.00. Many people will put in 505.00 as it's cheaper even though VAG themselves say not to use it. Price : They've never been cheap IME. Even I managed to sell an engine with 250k on it for £550! That was when the going rate was £1k. But yes, they do tick many many boxes .
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Last Edit: Jun 8, 2018 11:10:22 GMT by ChasR
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Only engine that springs to mind that ticks all the boxes is
Honda S2000 I think it's a K20 or something like that In the s2000 it had 240bhp std N/A
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1992 240 Volvo T8 1955 Cadillac 1994 BMW E34 M5 (now sold ) 1999 BMW E36 sport touring x2 1967 Hillman imp Californian "rally spec" 1971 VW bay window (work in progress) 1999 Mazda 323F 1987 Jaguar XJ12 All current
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Volvo b200/b230 turbo engines.bulletproof and easily tuned to 200 bhp and beyond.later manual box is bulletproof too. Wiring is in the realms of diy and there are really good diagrams available. Possibility of an eaton g80 locking rear axle if you get the right donor car and you are running a live axle. Hoping its gonna be great in my zephyr but I'm a while off proving the theory yet!
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