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Happy New Year folks. So the saga continues.....I decided to replace the alternator with a better quality one. Ordered it up, received it without any trouble and then compared it with the old one - I'd only gone and ordered the opposite hand! I had also been thinking about the problem of the alternator light coming on at idle, and looked at the pulley on the alternator, which was much larger diameter than the one on the new alternator - which probably means it came from the original dynamo and so the alternator was turning at a lower speed than is ideal (dynamos charge at a lower speed than alternators). The pulley on the new alternator was also not right - the jag has a double groove pulley - so I asked the supplier if they could supply the correct pulley which they could - so I send back the alternator and provided them with internal diameter of the original pulley. So, back came the new alternator and the new pulley - I try on the pulley and it doesn't fit! It turns out that the supplier didn't realise that I wanted the pulley for the alternator they had supplied, but if I sent it back to them they would machine it to the right size. However, this was leading up to Christmas and I had visions of it getting lost in the post, so sought out a local engineer who could machine it for me. I found Cranford Engineering in Ashtead www.cranford-engineering.co.uk who machined it for a fiver - they are an old fashioned engineering firm who can do pretty much anything - good to support local engineering businesses as they seem to be a dying breed. Anyway - all is now well, and I fitted the pulley and the alternator on to the car, so far so good..... Fired it up - the battery was a bit flat but with a boost it fired up - the alternator light went out immediately and didn't come back on at idle. I had rigged up a volt meter across the battery terminals to monitor things, which was showing a wildly fluctuating voltage, between about 12.5v up to 16.5v which a bit of Google research suggests is much higher than it should be. I have e-mailed the supplier to ask if this is correct, but no reply as yet. Any thoughts - I can't think of any situation which would cause the alternator to over charge apart from a fault with the alternator itself. Any advice would be welcome. cheers |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 13, 2019 19:47:24 GMT
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I found a bit of time to work on the Jag today - I had spoken to the alternator supplier who said that the high charging voltage may be down to a duff battery. So I thought I would swap out the battery with another I had lying around, having first fully charged it. Unfortunately, no joy - still showing charging voltage of up to 17v. So I am charging up the original battery, and will get it tested so I know its good. And then speak to the supplier again. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what else, other than alternator or battery might be the cause of the high charging voltage? Any tests I can run? cheers Cortinaman  |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 13, 2019 20:06:41 GMT
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I cannot think about any thing other then the alternator causing this. Some time ago, I bought a used Lucas A127 alternator for my Rover and was looking for an overhaul kit. Then found a lot of A127 type alternators for very low prices (GBP 55,-)and it seems these are chinese copys and found warnings on the internet that these were not the best quality. Maybe you also have a chinese copy with a dodgy regulator.
Peter
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Jan 13, 2019 20:12:22 GMT
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I cannot think about any thing other then the alternator causing this. Some time ago, I bought a used Lucas A127 alternator for my Rover and was looking for an overhaul kit. Then found a lot of A127 type alternators for very low prices (GBP 55,-)and it seems these are chinese copys and found warnings on the internet that these were not the best quality. Maybe you also have a chinese copy with a dodgy regulator. Peter I wish it was a cheap Chinese copy - it was rather expensive as I didn't want a cheap Chinese Copy!  |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 13, 2019 20:15:11 GMT
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it could be a chinese copy dressed up as an original
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Jan 13, 2019 20:21:35 GMT
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it could be a chinese copy dressed up as an original If I can eliminate the battery as the problem - it will be going back. I was sold it on the basis it was a European made product. |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 13, 2019 22:49:51 GMT
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100% an alternator fault, voltage reg
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100% an alternator fault, voltage reg Thanks darrenh I'm going to get the battery tested at my local garage this week, and then I can go back to the alternator supplier and say it is definitely the alternator. Thanks for the advice. Cortinaman |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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The Internets says they had an optimistic 220bhp and 240lbs of torque when new. Which doesn't sound allot but back then that was supercar power. however, bhp is just a function of revs and torque, so your self inflicted rev limit halted the party kicking off. You can clearly see bhp graph is still climbing at end of playtime (normal power graph will drop off) and can also see its still making 200 ish lbs of torque. Max bhp is made when torque is falling and at about 80% of max, so for you max bhp would be when torque drops to 180 ish Short version, Rev it to 6000 when it's run in, I have zero doubt it will nudge 200 horse, which is awesome! Rev it to 6000rpm and it might throw a rod through the block! The old XK really isn't designed to go there in factory trim - a well built hotted up 4.2 can push out 300bhp without getting past 6000rpm. The red zone on my XJ6 starts at 5000rpm, I think the 3.8 might be permitted to reach the heady heights of 5500rpm for a bank job getaway. As you probably know, the optimism in the 220bhp is because it's an SAE gross number same as the Americans were using in the 60s for their optimistic V8 outputs. The DIN bhp figure will be a lot lower - probably around 15% less. Lop 15% off 220bhp and you get 187bhp, re-do your calculation based on 180lb/ft with a 5500rpm redline (assuming I got that right) and you get 188bhp - sounds about spot on. Re. The alternator... I had a problem on my Laurel that started with the same symptom (batt light on at idle) and I too replaced the alternator, but I eventually discovered that it was a tired old belt that was stretching and slipping even when tensioned correctly causing the issues. The original alternator is still going strong on another 6 pot Nissan 5+ years and an expensive new alternator on my car later. Might be worth refitting the old one with a new belt and testing the voltage with a known good battery to be sure you need one. The flat battery will have been sucking away on the current and the load may have just caused the belt to slip a bit rather than the alternator to fail. |
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2019 5:15:20 GMT by wilko373
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The Internets says they had an optimistic 220bhp and 240lbs of torque when new. Which doesn't sound allot but back then that was supercar power. however, bhp is just a function of revs and torque, so your self inflicted rev limit halted the party kicking off. You can clearly see bhp graph is still climbing at end of playtime (normal power graph will drop off) and can also see its still making 200 ish lbs of torque. Max bhp is made when torque is falling and at about 80% of max, so for you max bhp would be when torque drops to 180 ish Short version, Rev it to 6000 when it's run in, I have zero doubt it will nudge 200 horse, which is awesome! Rev it to 6000rpm and it might throw a rod through the block! The old XK really isn't designed to go there in factory trim - a well built hotted up 4.2 can push out 300bhp without getting past 6000rpm. The red zone on my XJ6 starts at 5000rpm, I think the 3.8 might be permitted to reach the heady heights of 5500rpm for a bank job getaway. As you probably know, the optimism in the 220bhp is because it's an SAE gross number same as the Americans were using in the 60s for their optimistic V8 outputs. The DIN bhp figure will be a lot lower - probably around 15% less. Lop 15% off 220bhp and you get 187bhp, re-do your calculation based on 180lb/ft with a 5500rpm redline (assuming I got that right) and you get 188bhp - sounds about spot on. Re. The alternator... I had a problem on my Laurel that started with the same symptom (batt light on at idle) and I too replaced the alternator, but I eventually discovered that it was a tired old belt that was stretching and slipping even when tensioned correctly causing the issues. The original alternator is still going strong on another 6 pot Nissan 5+ years and an expensive new alternator on my car later. Might be worth refitting the old one with a new belt and testing the voltage with a known good battery to be sure you need one. The flat battery will have been sucking away on the current and the load may have just caused the belt to slip a bit rather than the alternator to fail. Hi wilko373 when its running the engine feels pretty strong - I'm not to bothered about bhp figures, to be honest but its encouraging to know it is about right. On the alternator front, I charged up the battery that was on the car yesterday evening, disconnected it overnight and put a volt meter across it this morning and it was showing 10.6v so I think it might be borked. I'll check the spare battery this evening. cheers Cortinaman |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 15, 2019 16:12:26 GMT
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That battery is as dead as a dodo! Blimey, that's unlucky. I've got away with discharging a couple of mine totally this year.
A CTEK charger with a battery reconditioning mode is about the best thing I have bought in the last 5 years for the garage, it's saved a couple of mine from being binned I think, great trickle charger as well.
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Jan 15, 2019 16:38:45 GMT
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That battery is as dead as a dodo! Blimey, that's unlucky. I've got away with discharging a couple of mine totally this year. A CTEK charger with a battery reconditioning mode is about the best thing I have bought in the last 5 years for the garage, it's saved a couple of mine from being binned I think, great trickle charger as well. I was looking at CTEK chargers - pretty pricey, but if they can be left on as a battery conditioner, might be worth the investment. Good to hear that you recommend them. |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 15, 2019 18:08:34 GMT
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 Aston Martin give you a rebranded CTEK charger when you buy a new car, pretty decent endorsememt! It's worth spending the extra for the version with a reconditioning mode in my experience, if you just want a trickle charger there are much cheaper options out there. Had mine about 4 years and if it broke tomorrow I'd get another immediately. |
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Jan 15, 2019 21:41:11 GMT
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looks like a good endorsement!
I checked the spare battery this evening and it is holding 12.4v having been sat since Sunday evening so I reckon it's good. Ironically, it is the battery I took off the car four years ago when I thought it was duff!
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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I went through charging system issues with my truck...a couple of things to confirm:
1) Voltage regulator needs to be fed full and actual battery voltage. If not,through faulty wiring or connections, it may tell the alternator to keep charging more and more.....or become erratic.
look for voltage drops at the key switch, alternator feed & voltage regulator.....are they all the same?
2) be sure all of your grounds are solid at the battery, alternator, regulator, ect. I added extra grounds to the regulator and alternator just to be on the safe side.
3) my gauge was all over the place, but actually working...though it seemed it was not....it all came down to different charging system components reading different voltages....
4) I also fused the voltage regulator feed
JP
PS here is an excerpt from my dodge dakota thread:
yeah Ive been plugging away at it...I had a weird flickering with all the lights, interior, exterior, headlights, dash lights, and was getting readings off the battery when the truck was running that kept varying between 14.1 and 14.8v.....it just kept cycling up and down like that...
The problem was that it seems the sense wire that fed the regulator (switched wire coming from the fuse panel) apparently had resistance in that branch of the wiring and was reading low....the regulator thought the voltage was low because of this and would demand more from the alternator...which did not agree that it needed to do that as its sense wire was direct from the battery.
they were arguing!
solution was found over at the dodge forum....put the ignition switched sense wire for the regulator on the feed side of a fused relay and run the output wire directly from the battery to power the regulator through the relay....this way the voltage would be the same at the regulator and alternator and hopefully they would stop arguing.
I'm happy to say it is working like a charm...no more flickering lights, no more weird gauge cluster anomalies and the truck is actually idling better and has smoother power delivery...its not any more powerful, unfortunately......but is has smoothed out. The transmission is shifting much smoother, too....
the relay has a built in port for a 30a fuse, a plug with wiring and a mounting bracket......I got a 5 pack (they actually sent 10!!!) for under 40.00US.
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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Aston Martin give you a rebranded CTEK charger when you buy a new car, pretty decent endorsememt! Jaguar and Land Rover do exactly the same or rather will sell you a JLR branded one for near 100% markup.
I have a CTEK branded CTEK.
It does exactly what it says on the tin.
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Jan 18, 2019 20:43:43 GMT
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Thanks 07lilredwagon the car has had a new wiring loom in the last year, so connections should be OK. BUT, ignition switch, ammeter, generator light are still original so there is scope for duff connections and earths. You mention checking voltage drop across key switch and alternator - forgive my ignorance, but how would you do that? I've, been thinking about the problem. It started when I left the lights on and drained the battery and then boost started it. Shortly after the generator light came on and ammeter started waving around erratically eventually we had no charge and got home on battery power. I assumed it was the alternator, but with the new one it seems to be doing the same thing (except the generator light now goes out) which kind of points towards something else.🙄 |
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Last Edit: Jan 18, 2019 20:53:24 GMT by cortinaman
Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 18, 2019 20:54:26 GMT
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Aston Martin give you a rebranded CTEK charger when you buy a new car, pretty decent endorsememt! Jaguar and Land Rover do exactly the same or rather will sell you a JLR branded one for near 100% markup. I have a CTEK branded CTEK. It does exactly what it says on the tin.
Cheers for that theoldman |
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Jan 20, 2019 20:22:44 GMT
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Last Edit: Jan 20, 2019 20:23:02 GMT by cortinaman
Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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Hi folks
Sorry for the lack of updates - my father has been ill with cancer and passed away this month, so family matters have taken precedence.
On a more cheerful note, my cousin is getting married this September in Cambridgeshire, and I have offered to drive her to the church in the jag. So I thought I ought to give it a bit of a check over and bring it up to scratch. So I've made a list of stuff to do - and thought I would start with the tyres as they were on the car when I bought it in 2012. They look fine, but having heard of horror stories of aging tyres giving out on the motorway, I thought I had better check the date stamps - the front tyres have some numbers (0404) and (1305) both of which could be the date stamp - suggesting I think either 2004 or 2005 production dates. The back tyres have no numbers which I can see which look like date stamps - any bright ideas? As the fronts seem to be over 10 years old I think I am looking at changing all four.
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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