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Jan 21, 2018 18:13:28 GMT
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ejenner, I hadn’t even considered just updating the original engine. I’ve only had the car around a year and the guy before me had spent some money having the engine rebuilt. The spec I got off him was:
Ported & polished cylinder head Full balance 285 Camshaft Lightened flywheel +.060” Pistons Crankshaft M=.020”, B/E=.020”, TW STD Heavy duty bearings Valve clearances IN .014, EX.014 Compression 190psi Oil pressure 48psi Head torque 65ftlb I’m told it’s now at 1700cc??
The numbers above don’t mean much to me but the engine does actually go pretty well......when it’s running correctly. I can see you’re in Kent so you may know Sanspeed? They tend to look after it for me and they do get the car running sweetly it’s just that I don’t use it all the time (it can sometimes standstill for a few weeks) and it soon starts to go a little out of sorts. They put it on their rolling road and it produced 120bhp at the flywheel on the twin 40 Weber’s. I do like the originality of the crossflow so I’ll probably give Burton a visit and see what can be done to bring the old girl up to date. Need to weigh up the bang for bucks I suppose.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,061
Club RR Member Number: 77
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MK2 Cortina Zetec/Duratec.mk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Jan 21, 2018 19:58:30 GMT
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From that engine spec i would be inclined to get either a Jenvey or Emerald throttle body setup to replace the webers
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Jan 21, 2018 21:24:25 GMT
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I’m on it first thing in the morning mk2cossie!! Calls to Burton and Emerald being made.
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I think Omex were the best shout out of all mentioned. They seem to do a 'kit' for these sorts of engines. Going for a kit would be the least hassle.
Normally aspirated engines are all about flow through the engine. As it isn't forced induction you have to coax volume through the head, teasing it through with things like vortexes and that kind of black magic. The biggest gains are from increased valve sizes and tuning the valve opening by changing cams and valve timing. The danger with tuning a normally aspirated engine is that you can end up making something which revs to 9000rpm and makes 100hp per litre but drives like turd the rest of the time. If you're driving it on the road you don't want to fit race cams and take out too much weight (weight in the engine helps you when letting out the clutch to pull-away from the lights)
The key to unlocking power from normally aspirated engines (and turbocharged engines actually) is good engine management. Computer controlled engine management can do things that aren't possible with distributor based vacuum or centrifugal controlled mechanical ignition advance systems.
If the engine you have is a 1.7l and has been worked on the chances are you should be able to get some pleasant performance from it.
I have been to Sanspeed a few times to buy bits of tubing and things like that. However, Burtion Power have a massive amount of stock compared with Sanspeed so are much better for popping to on a whim on a Saturday afternoon when you make a plan on the spur of the moment.
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Colin & Joe from Ashton Mobile will do that swap for you.
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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Jan 22, 2018 10:37:10 GMT
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Thanks for all the feedback guys much appreciated and insightful. Choices, choices. I'll try and talk to all those that have been recommended and get the best advice on whether to do an engine swap or work on the one I have. Need to weigh up the cost against what I want from the car.
Great advice from all though so thank you very much.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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MK2 Cortina Zetec/Duratec.Phil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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Jan 22, 2018 12:56:22 GMT
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I see Jenvey do some DCOE lookalike throttle bodies now (albeit a bit pricier than their normal offerings)...so it would even look the same but with an ECU controlling everything it would stay in tune. Emerald or Omex (both are held in high regard TBH) should be tuneable by a number of places and with that spec of engine I'd keep the crossflow if it was me?
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,061
Club RR Member Number: 77
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MK2 Cortina Zetec/Duratec.mk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Jan 22, 2018 13:28:52 GMT
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I see Jenvey do some DCOE lookalike throttle bodies now (albeit a bit pricier than their normal offerings)...so it would even look the same but with an ECU controlling everything it would stay in tune. Emerald or Omex (both are held in high regard TBH) should be tuneable by a number of places and with that spec of engine I'd keep the crossflow if it was me? Also be able to make something back selling the twin webers if that is what it has on there already as well I would be inclined to go for the Omex kit, just normal throttle bodies and not the DCOi carb looking things for the sack of the extra expense
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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MK2 Cortina Zetec/Duratec.Phil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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Jan 22, 2018 13:42:47 GMT
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I didn't say they were worth it (unless you're trying to hide the fact it's injection...),just that they look nice
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,586
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Jan 22, 2018 13:55:52 GMT
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I was going to suggest perhaps modernising the current engine a bit bit got beaten to it. Sounds like the engine has had some money spent already. My Mini is a bit like that but is a bit of a nightmare to drive due to the silly cam fitted. Programmable ignition would probably go a long way to making it nicer to drive every day.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:18:16 GMT
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distributors are now well past it in modern times. 3d ignition and crank sensors are where its at. I'm doing the same on my pre xflow in my mk1 Cortina.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:19:51 GMT
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Jan 22, 2018 18:20:29 GMT
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There really isn't a massive amount of difference between an engine from the 60s and an engine from the 90s or 2000s apart from the control systems. The odd shaving here and there... In fact it isn't that uncommon for budget manufacturers to use very old engines with modern control systems. The 1.3 engine in the Ford KA was the same push-rod thing they used in the Ford Anglia.
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Jan 22, 2018 18:47:19 GMT
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As said above if you are primarily after reliabilty, your current set up woul be easy to convert to efi, replace the webers with throttle bodies & pot, a toothed pulley and sensor plus a map sensor and hego would be all that needs to be added to the engine, you can get most of it of the shelf from Burton. On the vehicle side a swirl pot, high pressure pump and ecu would be needed as it would for a zetec etc.
Basically the same engine was used in ka like this up until 12 years ago.
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Jan 22, 2018 20:08:18 GMT
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I think I’ll end up staying with the crossflow. If I can get the car to run reliably with the original engine then I’d be happy with that. This should mean that the car can go for body and paint without the need for more fabrication which is what I was concerned about by doing the engine swap. I would’ve had to put off the paint until the engine was sorted.
Definitely selling the carbs when the time comes along with some other bits that have already been swapped.
Is there more power to be had using throttle bodies or is it more about the reliablility?
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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MK2 Cortina Zetec/Duratec.Phil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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Jan 22, 2018 20:27:44 GMT
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You should theoretically gain more Peak bhp but it isn’t all about the “pub” figure - you’ll end up with much better driveability and better manners as well. It’s all about the area under the curve; not just how high it gets..
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,586
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Jan 22, 2018 20:35:32 GMT
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I wondered about the Ka injection stuff but are the heads the same ? I am really trying to think now but seem to remember 1.6 crossflows had different heads to the 1.1's. Was it that one was a Kent engine and the smaller ones a Valencia and the post spacing's were different. I'm going back to Mk1 Fiesta here so a bit out of date !
Ultimate power will be the same if the carbs have been set up well but you will probably gain a lot of torque low down and make it far nicer to drive at normal speeds.
It will be interesting to see what you do.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:14:25 GMT
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or look at using a nodiz, and buying a new pair of webers maybe (yours may be worn? or send them to be rebuilt?) with a TPS on, put a trigger wheel on, and once set up you should have a reliable motor for not a lot of £...
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Jan 22, 2018 21:59:50 GMT
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Slammage you might as well have spoken to me in French!! Nodiz? TPS? Trigger wheel? I’m just about understanding throttle bodies and mapping and the you throw that at me😂😂
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Jan 22, 2018 22:05:46 GMT
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Twin sidedrafts can be reliable, in 23 years of ownership I have only had one issue with a blocked accel pump jet on my elan, it starts and drives smoothly right down to low rpm on twin 40 dellortos (far better than the efi on my aged range rover!). One of the problems with modified engines on carbs is getting them set up properly, not many people out there who know what they are doing now, same goes for the distributor advance curve.
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