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With 1 PSi I'd say you're about right. How did you bench test the actuator? There is a chance it has gone a little weak especially given how old it is. It's not my car but I'd be tempted to carefully turn up the wick as long as you are sure you have fuel to keep the mixture safe and have retarded the timing. Oh, and your plugs are a grade colder. That is assuming the pipework to the gauge is not kinked etc. I literally put about 4psi through it from my compressor and it opened ut it wa shard to be that accurate with such a low pressure! could be right though is pretty old I expect. Have the correct fuel reg and proper turbo distributor. I have just ordered some parts to make a leak tester so will go from there I think.. Is still fun to drive and is a vast improvement from what it was, and that's only with 3psi! Thanks for your help Chas  |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Remember this. The factory cars had a form of boost control. Below 4500rpm was the actuator pressure. The lag from just having a wastegate at these levels which allowed for boost to build up slowly is said to be one line of defence against the inherently weak gearboxes blowing themselves to bits. It probably also made it arguably more driveable. Porsche did a similar thing with the 944 Turbo which was done for drivability ; most owners now bypass this with a number of kits. At higher RPM they had a form of boost control which took the car up to 7 or 8PSi. IIRC they came with tougher pistons and possibly a tuftrided crank which is why they could be turned up easier for more boost by a tad, as long as the gearbox held together short of buying a Jack Knight item. www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/11810-metro-turbo-ecu/ |
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Yeah have done lots of research before doing it don't worry! I don't have the gearbox issue though as my setup is completely different. You're right the main difference is the pistons but I have fitted an intercooler to try and compensate for it a bit. Many people have converted n/a a series and run about 7psi reliably so that's what I will aim for eventually, but will get it tuned up on a RR to check fuelling on boost etc.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Yeah have done lots of research before doing it don't worry! I don't have the gearbox issue though as my setup is completely different. You're right the main difference is the pistons but I have fitted an intercooler to try and compensate for it a bit. Many people have converted n/a a series and run about 7psi reliably so that's what I will aim for eventually, but will get it tuned up on a RR to check fuelling on boost etc. It's always hard to gauge from the posts and the thread how much research one has done but I suspected it was the case. The gearbox I didn't think would be a concern . I'm surprised you're not considering an AFR gauge to do the tuning . |
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Yeah have done lots of research before doing it don't worry! I don't have the gearbox issue though as my setup is completely different. You're right the main difference is the pistons but I have fitted an intercooler to try and compensate for it a bit. Many people have converted n/a a series and run about 7psi reliably so that's what I will aim for eventually, but will get it tuned up on a RR to check fuelling on boost etc. This might not be relevant to you specifically as I don't where you are taking the boost pressure reading from but there will be a lower boost reading after the I.C.. Usually around 1-2 psi. Another aspect is, you're running really low boost and that I suspect makes it harder to get a 100% accurate reading on a basic mechanical gauge, even one that only goes to 15 psi. If you can't find a leak and you're happy with the performance (and presuming the fueling is correct) drive on and leave well enough alone would be my 2p's worth of advise. |
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Last Edit: Jan 9, 2018 18:14:01 GMT by Woofwoof
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Yeah have done lots of research before doing it don't worry! I don't have the gearbox issue though as my setup is completely different. You're right the main difference is the pistons but I have fitted an intercooler to try and compensate for it a bit. Many people have converted n/a a series and run about 7psi reliably so that's what I will aim for eventually, but will get it tuned up on a RR to check fuelling on boost etc. This might not be irrelevant to you specifically as I don't where you are taking the boost pressure reading from but there will be a lower boost reading after the I.C.. Usually around 1-2 psi. Another aspect is, you're running really low boost and that I suspect makes it harder to get a 100% accurate reading on a basic mechanical gauge, even one that only goes to 15 psi. If you can't find a leak and you're happy with the performance (and presuming the fueling is correct) drive on and leave well enough alone would be my 2p's worth of advise. Thanks for your advice, I did think there may be a bit of a drop as I'm taking the gauge from the inlet manifold. Have thought about an afr but they are quite expensive.. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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I only mentioned an AFR as dyno time isn't exactly cheap either and you can keep an AFR for future tuning, be it a simple carb tune up or more. . |
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I only mentioned an AFR as dyno time isn't exactly cheap either and you can keep an AFR for future tuning, be it a simple carb tune up or more. . Yeah I'm seriously considering it now... my wallet's not gunna thank me! |
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Jan 10, 2018 12:07:34 GMT
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What’s the turbo off ? If you need 3500 rpm to make any boost it sounds like it’s too big . I have an old innovate hand held afr set up that I bought before guages in the car existed , not a fan of innovate stuff but it did the job when it was all Renault 5 turbos and early ford stuff
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Jan 10, 2018 12:31:49 GMT
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What’s the turbo off ? If you need 3500 rpm to make any boost it sounds like it’s too big . I have an old innovate hand held afr set up that I bought before guages in the car existed , not a fan of innovate stuff but it did the job when it was all Renault 5 turbos and early ford stuff It's the standard metro one so should be right.. Sounds cool but I guess you couldn't use it whilst driving along! |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jan 10, 2018 14:36:28 GMT
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What’s the turbo off ? If you need 3500 rpm to make any boost it sounds like it’s too big . I have an old innovate hand held afr set up that I bought before guages in the car existed , not a fan of innovate stuff but it did the job when it was all Renault 5 turbos and early ford stuff They are a T3 as standard on the Metro Turbos I believe but with smallish turbine and compressor wheels. The fact that he doesn't have a boost controller of sorts will also help exaggerate this ; the wastegate will gradually open as it sees its design boost pressure. |
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Jan 11, 2018 13:35:05 GMT
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What’s the turbo off ? If you need 3500 rpm to make any boost it sounds like it’s too big . I have an old innovate hand held afr set up that I bought before guages in the car existed , not a fan of innovate stuff but it did the job when it was all Renault 5 turbos and early ford stuff It's the standard metro one so should be right.. Sounds cool but I guess you couldn't use it whilst driving along! That’s exactly what it was for , clamp the sensor into the exhaust and prop the control box in the dash and powered off the fag lighter socket . I still use it when I’m on the Dyno with my twin turbo v8 so monitor the other bank compared to the operators on the other side , have you tested the wastegate actuator to see what pressure it cracks open at ? |
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Jan 11, 2018 18:22:35 GMT
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It's the standard metro one so should be right.. Sounds cool but I guess you couldn't use it whilst driving along! That’s exactly what it was for , clamp the sensor into the exhaust and prop the control box in the dash and powered off the fag lighter socket . I still use it when I’m on the Dyno with my twin turbo v8 so monitor the other bank compared to the operators on the other side , have you tested the wastegate actuator to see what pressure it cracks open at ? Yeah I did bench test it but seemed about 4 psi so that was it! |
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Jan 11, 2018 18:27:06 GMT
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Okay so did a leak test and it's coming out lots! There's a bit from the inlet manifold but mostly coming from near the inlet side area of the turbo but I can't seem to find it, going to jack it up and see if I can see from underneath.
I've currently just taken the air filter off and I'm pushing pressure through. But at the moment it's hardly anything as it's not even showing on the gauge!
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Jan 11, 2018 18:49:31 GMT
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Also do they still sell that tester froggy?
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Jan 11, 2018 19:35:21 GMT
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A much more fancy version with 8 or more channel inputs . If your gate cracks at 4 lb then you’ll get a bit less boost than that , you really want an idea of afr before going any further due to the curse word inlet design on minis . Have you got any means of checking ign advance ?
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Jan 11, 2018 21:59:12 GMT
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A much more fancy version with 8 or more channel inputs . If your gate cracks at 4 lb then you’ll get a bit less boost than that , you really want an idea of afr before going any further due to the curse word inlet design on minis . Have you got any means of checking ign advance ? Ah I see, guess that comes with a fancy price tag too! Yeah I know, well I have the Metro Turbo carb and needle, dizzy, turbo and fuel regulator and I checked my plugs and they looks spot on but I'm gunna try and fix the leak which should hopefully reduce the lag a bit  |
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Jan 12, 2018 10:04:28 GMT
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Sorted out most of the leaks today, the mystery leak was the relief valve on the back of the plenum. Need to take it up and seal if off but at least I know what it is. Also the plenum to carb gasket is leaking a fair bit do can replace that at the same time. Also fixed a few other leaks whilst testing, not much difference yet but hopefully there will be when I seal up the valve 😉
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Jan 12, 2018 11:56:56 GMT
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Ah - the "don't explode the gearbox" valve..
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Jan 13, 2018 17:27:27 GMT
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haven't fixed the leak yet but went out to Exeter today and boost doesn't come on much sooner but I don't loose it between gears like it used to so must be going in the right direction!
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