logicaluk
Posted a lot
Every days a school day round here
Posts: 1,319
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May 11, 2020 19:18:43 GMT
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Mr Grumpy, some advice please a mate has a Black VW T5 van that once had vinyl lettering down the side, and the shadow of the lettering is showing, he says he's machine polished it, I don't know what with, and it goes away but returns after a few weeks. He's resigned to flatting it back with 1500 and probably having it blown over. Do you have any ideas? You could try a good quality 'slow drying' panel wipe (U Pol do one) then a good compound polish over that - however it sounds like its nothing within the vinyl lettering adhesive that has caused the problem its more likely to be that the lacquer on the van has been bleached - In theory this should not happen - modern day lacquers / clear coats are formulated to withstand UV / fade / peel / mild abrasion etc - none the less vehicle manufactures are in a constant search to drive down costs what may look good for the first 5 - 10 years of a vehicles life could rapidly deteriorate after a given lifetime of a product - after all if the vehicle manufactures built to longer lifetime standards they would effectively kill their own market for new vehicle production - Hence it may just be that the filters in the lacquer fade after a certain length of time and it could well be that repainting is the only option. Going back to the original signwriting days when it was undertaken by a craftsman and painted on you had little choice but to repaint the vehicle or at least the panels - but in many cases if you just sanded the panel to remove the signwriting (but left the original factory paint on the panel) and then overpainted it - the signwriting although removed would still ghost through the fresh paint - only way to resolve the issue was to go back to bare metal & repaint the panel Thankyou. Dan
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rbs
Part of things
Posts: 64
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Morning. I will be back soon with more questions about repairing the rear wheel arches on my 304 Cabriolet but more about the inner arches this time. In the meantime to give the neighbours some peace from all the noise I am thinking of having a short break from the bodywork and have a look at the back lights.
The surround for the lamps is (was) a sort of chromed plastic. This is now either badly scratched, tarnished, worn or bubbling slightly. Going to rub them down, if need be use filler on any craters and then paint high gloss silver.
Can you please advise on primer, paint and should I lacquer them. I will be using aerosols.
Thank you.
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Morning. I will be back soon with more questions about repairing the rear wheel arches on my 304 Cabriolet but more about the inner arches this time. In the meantime to give the neighbours some peace from all the noise I am thinking of having a short break from the bodywork and have a look at the back lights. The surround for the lamps is (was) a sort of chromed plastic. This is now either badly scratched, tarnished, worn or bubbling slightly. Going to rub them down, if need be use filler on any craters and then paint high gloss silver. Can you please advise on primer, paint and should I lacquer them. I will be using aerosols. Thank you. Primer wise I would use a good quality branded etching primer - same with the paint there are rubbish cheap aerosols in the market that are just not worth the effort - you will gain a better finish with a basecoat colour and then a lacquer / clear coat over it that just a straight colour single finish silver - I'd just urge a slight word of caution here on such parts - allow too much build up of paint and it may effect the fitting of lenses or chip / shell back off the surround when its comes to refitting them - a lightish uniform application rather than a thick build up of paint is highly recommended on such parts / fittings
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rbs
Part of things
Posts: 64
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Quick reply. Thanks. I have the Upol etching primer you recommended for the floor repair panels. Is that ok to use? I'll check the clearance between the lens and shell and take it easy.
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Quick reply. Thanks. I have the Upol etching primer you recommended for the floor repair panels. Is that ok to use? I'll check the clearance between the lens and shell and take it easy. Yep - The U pol etch will be fine
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Last Edit: May 15, 2020 8:58:59 GMT by Deleted
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lebowski
Part of things
Hillman Avenger, Clan Clover
Posts: 476
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May 15, 2020 13:15:27 GMT
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I had a pretty disastrous time yesterday painting my car doors. I first carried out some rust repairs, then filled and keyed the old paint on the doors. I used BH etchweld and then BH Highbild before flatting back ready for 1k acrylic basecoat and clear. There were no problems at this stage and everything looked fine. When I applied the basecoat, it seemed to go on fine although I probably put it on a bit 'dry' and orange peely (literally, the car is orange). I then went too heavy with the clearcoat and got some runs. Poor job so far, but saveable I thought. I put 4 coats of clear on, more cautiously after the runs in the first coat. However, after drying overnight I now have some wrinkling going on all over. My best guess is that this is due to excessive lacquer application with insufficient time to evaporate the solvents. I'm guessing the solvents are attacking the layer underneath. IMG_20200515_135207 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr
What do I need to do to save this? I'm guessing sand down to remove the lacquer, spray another layer of basecoat and then reapply lacquer sparingly? Or is it more likely that this is a reaction between incompatible paints?
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May 15, 2020 15:13:27 GMT
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I had a pretty disastrous time yesterday painting my car doors. I first carried out some rust repairs, then filled and keyed the old paint on the doors. I used BH etchweld and then BH Highbild before flatting back ready for 1k acrylic basecoat and clear. There were no problems at this stage and everything looked fine. When I applied the basecoat, it seemed to go on fine although I probably put it on a bit 'dry' and orange peely (literally, the car is orange). I then went too heavy with the clearcoat and got some runs. Poor job so far, but saveable I thought. I put 4 coats of clear on, more cautiously after the runs in the first coat. However, after drying overnight I now have some wrinkling going on all over. My best guess is that this is due to excessive lacquer application with insufficient time to evaporate the solvents. I'm guessing the solvents are attacking the layer underneath. IMG_20200515_135207 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr What do I need to do to save this? I'm guessing sand down to remove the lacquer, spray another layer of basecoat and then reapply lacquer sparingly? Or is it more likely that this is a reaction between incompatible paints?
You have to all extents answered your question - going heavy with lacquer will not have helped but its the curing times between the basecoat & the application of lacquer that has more than likely created the issue here - you could flat it back & chance it with a further application of basecoat followed by a clearcoat but with plenty of time left for the solvents in the basecoat to vent off first - however this is taking a chance - it could react again but it might be fine too - rather than chance wasting your time & patience along with more wasted materials if it does react I would highly recommend applying a isolator - this you should be able to obtain it from a automotive paint factors in aerosol format or by the litre if you applying your paint by spraygun - if not here is a good source of all things in the automotive refinishing market online www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=isolator+A few light coats of this followed by a light key once cured and your basecoat can go straight on over the top of it - no requirement for additional primer coats - good luck - Chris
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Last Edit: May 15, 2020 15:15:13 GMT by Deleted
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lebowski
Part of things
Hillman Avenger, Clan Clover
Posts: 476
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May 15, 2020 15:39:41 GMT
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Thanks Chris. I suspected as much. I was probably being a bit short with drying times between coats as I was running out of time.
I will flat down a door in the next couple of days and see how it looks. Paint prep can certainly be frustrating and massively time consuming! I'm using a cheap spray gun by the way.
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May 15, 2020 18:40:29 GMT
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One bit of advice with paint I would give is;
Never rush it.
Far better to do another coat or two the next day than ruin it by trying to do it too fast.
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May 15, 2020 21:18:34 GMT
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The replacement wing I have for my car has a clear coat that's flaking off. This isn't a problem for me because I'll take all the paint off anyway.
But the red under the clear was a solid colour and should never have had a clear coat in the first place. So the question is - why did somebody go to the trouble of doing it? You know when red cars oxidise and go pink? If you polished it back to a red colour and then clear coated it would that stop it going pink again? Could that be why they did it?
I only ask out of curiosity.
James
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The replacement wing I have for my car has a clear coat that's flaking off. This isn't a problem for me because I'll take all the paint off anyway. But the red under the clear was a solid colour and should never have had a clear coat in the first place. So the question is - why did somebody go to the trouble of doing it? You know when red cars oxidise and go pink? If you polished it back to a red colour and then clear coated it would that stop it going pink again? Could that be why they did it? I only ask out of curiosity. James James - When you state that its a solid colour - do you mean that its a direct to gloss solid colour - I refer to a solid colour has a non metallic / non pearlescent colour - your car is built in era of basecoat & lacquer - where the colour (basecoat) is applied first and then a lacquer / clear coat is applied over it - so its not unusual - modern day lacquers are being continually improved with UV filters in order to prevent colour fade etc but everything has a life span and eventually the lacquer will degrade / peel / fade etc - If vehicle manufactures built vehicles to the point that they lasted to extended lifetime & they still looked good essentially they would kill their own market for new vehicle production
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Hi @grumpynorthener,
Toyota were running 2 paint systems at the time. My car is black + clear coat (not sure if there is metal flake in it - the roof is the original paint and doesn't appear to have any). Some other colours like the mica blue were also clear coated. Other colours such as the red and I think white were gloss out of the gun so this replacement wing shouldn't have a clear coat on it. I was just pondering why somebody would have done it.
Somewhere I have a list of which colours should have a clear coat and which don't but I'm damned if I can find it now.
James
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Hi @grumpynorthener, Toyota were running 2 paint systems at the time. My car is black + clear coat (not sure if there is metal flake in it - the roof is the original paint and doesn't appear to have any). Some other colours like the mica blue were also clear coated. Other colours such as the red and I think white were gloss out of the gun so this replacement wing shouldn't have a clear coat on it. I was just pondering why somebody would have done it. Somewhere I have a list of which colours should have a clear coat and which don't but I'm damned if I can find it now. James James - The advancement of paint technology & paint mixing systems is why - when someone has gone to the automotive paint supplier for the paint in order to repaint the replacement rear wing it could well be that the said red was no longer available in a single direct to gloss paint system and only available has a 2 stage paint system (not to be confused with a 2K / 2 pack paint - although the lacquer will be 2K) - hence the reason its been painted with a basecoat & lacquer - all production line vehicles are now painted with a 2 stage system (and have been for the last 20 years or so) - the basecoat being water based in order to comply with emission control (emission particles to air pollution) & environmental regulations
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Last Edit: May 16, 2020 9:35:38 GMT by Deleted
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May 16, 2020 11:08:42 GMT
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To also answer your original questions James,
If you polished up dead paint to revive the colour and then applied clearcoat (suitably flatted off first obviously) then yes it would probably seal it off to prevent oxidisation of the paint in future. Not a perfect fix of course.
Second question of clear over high solid coat, it's not wrong and is not a 'bad' thing, just not necessary. It is sometimes done as the clear provides a deep' shine that high solids just cannot do.
HTH.
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Body & Paint Threadgryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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May 16, 2020 13:49:21 GMT
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I'm trying my hand at some aerosol painting, have a few questions and after half an hour googling and watching various youtubes seem to be none the wiser! I think they're rather basic questions though...
I'm starting small and re-spraying a couple of wing mirrors black. U-Pol cans from Jawel - grey primer, satin black and clear. So far I've sanded back the previous pretty terrible paint job with 400 grit and given two coats of primer, a rub down with 400 grit after each coat. Photo is after second layer of primer, left sanded, right unsanded: I was pretty happy with the primer, but included the picture just in case I shouldn't have been! Next up Satin Black basecoat. Went on with quite a textured finish and I've been sanding it back with 1500 grit (Can't find my 1000, either have 800 or 1500). First question is how smooth do I need to get the base coat? I'm presuming smoother / more uniform is always going to be better, but I've sanded through it so many times trying to get to the finish I think I need that I must be doing something wrong... This is what I've ended up with: I went ahead and clearcoated one of them, and either due to the base or my spraying technique it came out looking incredibly textured. When I was spraying it I put it on until I could see a nice reflection and wasn't too worried about it running... Was it too light? Sorry for the rookie questions! Thanks in advance
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May 16, 2020 16:38:35 GMT
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May 16, 2020 17:36:22 GMT
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Firstly - 400's for primer is a little heavy - you need to be at 600 / 800 for primer (if its thick primer nothing wrong with an initial going over with 400's but you need to finish with a finer grade) - secondly other than a very light & delicate wipe over with a tac rag - I don't touch the basecoats once they are applied - they are formulated to accept the lacquer / clearcoat without being keyed back (key a metallic / pearlescent basecoat back and you will end up with a proper mess) - your satin basecoat finish looks heavy / thick / dry to me - I would try lighter / wetter coats prior to clear coating them - how many coats of lacquer have you applied ?
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rbs
Part of things
Posts: 64
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May 16, 2020 19:00:03 GMT
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Quick question. Are there any affordable ie cheap guns for applying sprayable seam sealer? Can use the brushable sealer I have but thought sprayable would look better. Can probably borrow a gun once everyone is back at work but would need to borrow it numerous times as work progresses on the car and don't want to do that. Thanks.
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lebowski
Part of things
Hillman Avenger, Clan Clover
Posts: 476
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May 16, 2020 19:12:01 GMT
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I had a pretty disastrous time yesterday painting my car doors. I first carried out some rust repairs, then filled and keyed the old paint on the doors. I used BH etchweld and then BH Highbild before flatting back ready for 1k acrylic basecoat and clear. There were no problems at this stage and everything looked fine. When I applied the basecoat, it seemed to go on fine although I probably put it on a bit 'dry' and orange peely (literally, the car is orange). I then went too heavy with the clearcoat and got some runs. Poor job so far, but saveable I thought. I put 4 coats of clear on, more cautiously after the runs in the first coat. However, after drying overnight I now have some wrinkling going on all over. My best guess is that this is due to excessive lacquer application with insufficient time to evaporate the solvents. I'm guessing the solvents are attacking the layer underneath. IMG_20200515_135207 by Chris Witkowski, on Flickr What do I need to do to save this? I'm guessing sand down to remove the lacquer, spray another layer of basecoat and then reapply lacquer sparingly? Or is it more likely that this is a reaction between incompatible paints?
Update to this situation: I was going to rub down the above door again for repainting, but I thought I'd try gently flatting it with lots of water and 1000 grit. It flatted incredibly quickly and easily and I was able to fully remove the wrinkling (and any orange peel) without going through the clearcoat. A quick buff up gave a very nice shine (too nice, there's a couple of slight ripples still visible). I did have a couple of runs at the bottom which went through to the basecoat when I was flatting, so I flatted back, soft masked the bottom of the door and applied more basecoat and lacquer. In a few days I will blend the repair and finish buffing. Fingers crossed I will get away with it.
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May 16, 2020 19:40:53 GMT
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Quick question. Are there any affordable ie cheap guns for applying sprayable seam sealer? Can use the brushable sealer I have but thought sprayable would look better. Can probably borrow a gun once everyone is back at work but would need to borrow it numerous times as work progresses on the car and don't want to do that. Thanks. Depends on what you call affordable - Mine was one of the cheaper versions and cost £150 + so probably not - what finish are wanting to achieve - would a brushable seam sealer that has a stone chip applied over it do the job or you after something close to a factory finish - I don't use the 1 litre tins of seam sealer that you have to oink out the can with a brush to apply to the seams - they just leave a utter mess - I do use a cartridge type seam sealer applied with a skeleton gun and then just lightly brush the sealer out to replicate what is very close to a factory finish - you need a low modulus sealer mind don't fooled by Tigerseal / Sikaflex urethane / PU based products - images below of a recent job
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