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Sept 25, 2017 11:06:22 GMT
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The sponge is open cell, the idea is you have a continuous supply of fresh air, a significant part of which goes out through the foam and takes the CO2 you breathe out with it, you don't need a particularly good seal as the pressure in the mask is always supposed to be greater than outside so the flow is only one way.
The only problem with mine is the foam is beginning to fall apart now and I can't find anywhere which sells just the face mask at a reasonable price.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,383
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Sept 25, 2017 21:06:29 GMT
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Thanks for the info kevins. I thought it might be something like that but it still feels strange compared to the tightness of the more basic masks.
Guess I won't really know what it's like till am using it for real
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Last Edit: Sept 25, 2017 21:07:24 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Sept 28, 2017 10:20:20 GMT
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The mask you have purchased looks to be a cheaper version / copy of the Devilbis Pro Visor that I have but with a different regulator set up and should be fine for what you are doing Significant difference in cost though has the Devilbiss is listed at £400 + retail (mine was £250 + vat on special offer) - ideally you need a 3 stage filter set up to convert compressed air to a breathing quality which requires a coalescer within the filter system to remove any oil borne particles (which will be within the pack that you have pictured) - this is my set up Unfortunately they just are not cheap - you may get lucky and find a used set on e bay - it gets confusing has most users assume that the filter set up is to filter out any paint particles / fumes - when in reality it is there to ensure that the air is of a breathable quality - you may well get away for a small period without using one but believe me lung / throat infections / mild asthma triggered by not using the correct equipment is no joke - been there and several T shirts later it's just not worth it - I think your visor has a mist spray disposable visor option - this is just a film type clear cover that goes over the main visor - it's critical to the life of the main visor - use it without the disposable film once and you may has well throw the main mask away after using it - let me know if you need any further info / help - Chris
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Last Edit: Sept 28, 2017 13:41:15 GMT by Deleted
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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You can by a decent long lasting carbon filter setup for 80quid. Look for them under blasting equip rather than painting tho. I tee off the mask for the gun as it's alot easier and the air is nice and clean already. No curse word in the paint!
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I use a separate low pressure air supply direct from a centrifugal pump, apart from a simple foam one to keep flies etc out no filters etc (does mean you have to mess around with 2 hoses though), certainly would not want to breathe what comes out the bottom of the compressor tank when I drain it!
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Oct 19, 2017 20:09:22 GMT
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Interesting thread this, and very useful! So would I be correct in thinking that 1k paint, is what is referred to as ‘high solid’ paint?
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Oct 19, 2017 21:26:36 GMT
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Interesting thread this, and very useful! So would I be correct in thinking that 1k paint, is what is referred to as ‘high solid’ paint? Any paint can be a high solid content and the automotive refinishing trade tend to use the abbreviations HS - for high solid content & MS for medium solid content referring to the paint density / build but any single pack / 1K or 2 pack / 2k paint or lacquer can be labelled HS or MS depending upon it's chemical composition / intended use
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Oct 19, 2017 21:36:56 GMT
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Interesting thread this, and very useful! So would I be correct in thinking that 1k paint, is what is referred to as ‘high solid’ paint? Any paint can be a high solid content and the automotive refinishing trade tend to use the abbreviations HS - for high solid content & MS for medium solid content referring to the paint density / build but any single pack / 1K or 2 pack / 2k paint or lacquer can be labelled HS or MS depending upon it's chemical composition / intended use Thanks for the reply and info! The reason I ask, is a friend who works as a panel beater painted his car with HS, and got a very good finish, and suggested I could use it in the garage at home, and still get an acceptable finish with it.... Have I picked up correctly in this thread that 1k paint can be used with a non air fed mask provided it has the correct filters fitted? Or have I misunderstood this.... Cheers
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Any paint can be a high solid content and the automotive refinishing trade tend to use the abbreviations HS - for high solid content & MS for medium solid content referring to the paint density / build but any single pack / 1K or 2 pack / 2k paint or lacquer can be labelled HS or MS depending upon it's chemical composition / intended use Thanks for the reply and info! The reason I ask, is a friend who works as a panel beater painted his car with HS, and got a very good finish, and suggested I could use it in the garage at home, and still get an acceptable finish with it.... Have I picked up correctly in this thread that 1k paint can be used with a non air fed mask provided it has the correct filters fitted? Or have I misunderstood this.... Cheers You are correct in your assumption that you can spray single pack paints without the requirement for an air / positive fed mask - I would highly recommend the use of a good quality branded mask though half face type - 3M have an excellent range ideally with charcoal type filters - either the 4000 or the 7500 series is what I would recommend - they are not cheap at circa £25 + but will certainly do the job for you - under no circumstance should you use a paper type disposable mask - the down side with a single pack paint is that the drying times are significant (weeks / months depending upon air temperatures)
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Thanks for the reply and info! The reason I ask, is a friend who works as a panel beater painted his car with HS, and got a very good finish, and suggested I could use it in the garage at home, and still get an acceptable finish with it.... Have I picked up correctly in this thread that 1k paint can be used with a non air fed mask provided it has the correct filters fitted? Or have I misunderstood this.... Cheers You are correct in your assumption that you can spray single pack paints without the requirement for an air / positive fed mask - I would highly recommend the use of a good quality branded mask though half face type - 3M have an excellent range ideally with charcoal type filters - either the 4000 or the 7500 series is what I would recommend - they are not cheap at circa £25 + but will certainly do the job for you - under no circumstance should you use a paper type disposable mask - the down side with a single pack paint is that the drying times are significant (weeks / months depending upon air temperatures) Ahh, with drying times like that, then perhaps it's not ideal to be painting in the garage at home
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Oct 20, 2017 14:14:05 GMT
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You are correct in your assumption that you can spray single pack paints without the requirement for an air / positive fed mask - I would highly recommend the use of a good quality branded mask though half face type - 3M have an excellent range ideally with charcoal type filters - either the 4000 or the 7500 series is what I would recommend - they are not cheap at circa £25 + but will certainly do the job for you - under no circumstance should you use a paper type disposable mask - the down side with a single pack paint is that the drying times are significant (weeks / months depending upon air temperatures) Ahh, with drying times like that, then perhaps it's not ideal to be painting in the garage at home There are ways around it - ideally you need maintain a temperature above 5 degrees otherwise the paint will just not cure but better still if you can achieve 10 - 15 degrees + - a couple of cheap oil filled electric radiators with inbuilt thermostats will achieve this if you make some attempts to reduce drafts from doors / windows etc - left for 48 + hours on a low temperature these are not going to kill your electric bill (I keep a decent sized one in the workshop and run it overnight through very low temperatures without it adversely effecting my electric bill) this would give the paint enough hardness for you to commence fitting the car back up carefully - I would hold off on polishing it for a few weeks though - the alternative is for you get the car stripped & prepared then look to see if anyone around you offers spray booth / oven hire on a hourly / daily basis - check e bay / gumtree etc
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Oct 21, 2017 11:57:21 GMT
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Ahh, with drying times like that, then perhaps it's not ideal to be painting in the garage at home There are ways around it - ideally you need maintain a temperature above 5 degrees otherwise the paint will just not cure but better still if you can achieve 10 - 15 degrees + - a couple of cheap oil filled electric radiators with inbuilt thermostats will achieve this if you make some attempts to reduce drafts from doors / windows etc - left for 48 + hours on a low temperature these are not going to kill your electric bill (I keep a decent sized one in the workshop and run it overnight through very low temperatures without it adversely effecting my electric bill) this would give the paint enough hardness for you to commence fitting the car back up carefully - I would hold off on polishing it for a few weeks though - the alternative is for you get the car stripped & prepared then look to see if anyone around you offers spray booth / oven hire on a hourly / daily basis - check e bay / gumtree etc Thanks for the guidance mate! That is a few helpful pointers! That may be the route I go with the heaters, trying to hold off stripping the car down until I find a new house, but I’ll see what happens, got welding to do on it before it sees any paint too!
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,383
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Oct 25, 2017 19:01:36 GMT
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Hi keyring. I suspect your mate is so used to using 2K paint that he didn't see that aspect as an issue and just recommended HS as it's his favoured type of 2K. Could be wrong but most pros use 2K and a lot of them say 'I don't bother with all that airfed mask business' which sort of brings us full circle. Put it this way if I'd been there at the time I'd have said 'you mean HS 2K paint? you do know keyring hasn't got an airfed mask?' That might not have went down well lol. I'm my experience the only 1K paint that takes ages to dry is synthetic enamel, which is like tractor/machinery paint, and I don't imaging that's what you're after. If you use 'normal' spray paint like cellulose/celly/acrylic it dries almost instantly and can be used with a good face mask like 3M or something. I must admit I've never seen celly offered in MS or HS. I thought this nomenclature only came in with 2K paint
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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keyring
Part of things
Posts: 913
Club RR Member Number: 47
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Oct 25, 2017 19:18:47 GMT
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Hi keyring. I suspect your mate is so used to using 2K paint that he didn't see that aspect as an issue and just recommended HS as it's his favoured type of 2K. Could be wrong but most pros use 2K and a lot of them say 'I don't bother with all that airfed mask business' which sort of brings us full circle. Put it this way if I'd been there at the time I'd have said 'you mean HS 2K paint? you do know keyring hasn't got an airfed mask?' That might not have went down well lol. I'm my experience the only 1K paint that takes ages to dry is synthetic enamel, which is like tractor/machinery paint, and I don't imaging that's what you're after. If you use 'normal' spray paint like cellulose/celly/acrylic it dries almost instantly and can be used with a good face mask like 3M or something. I must admit I've never seen celly offered in MS or HS. I thought this nomenclature only came in with 2K paint That may well be the case when he recommended it! I do fancy trying my hand at painting, even if it was just the engine bay. The mk2 does need a respray, and I’d love to do it myself but when putting the sensible head on, it’s maybe not the best idea I think giving the engine bay a go first is the way to go, would hate to then have to strip it l; back off and get it done properly again! Nice to see someone not too far away from me too!
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,383
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Oct 25, 2017 23:59:02 GMT
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I didn't even notice you were in Scotland lol. Sorry.
I'd say go for it. Painting isn't hard if you keep things clean and tidy, do good prep and follow basic guidelines.
I'd did my first spraying on some fork legs of my motorbike in my mum's cupboard when I was 16. used rattle cans from Halfords and it still looks great. I'm 47 now and have spent a fortune over the years getting stuff powder coated and it has rusted up before even going outside.
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Oct 26, 2017 16:04:12 GMT
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For several years I used to be a panel beater in a crash damage garage and paintshop. . 2 pack paint is dangerous everyone knows this but using a good new charcoal mask for a one off job shouldnt be any worse than working in a garage for any legnth of time. This is as there are always fumes from the paint booth, mixing room, gun wash station, sweeping up emptying bins ect. Also you are not allowed to inhale the paint when you are working on a car sanding it down, hoovering it etc. What I'm trying to say is 2k paint in either wet or dry forms will find it way into your lungs, eyes and skin if you work in a garage. So doing a 1 off car respray with a good make mask shouldnt make you too worried.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,383
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May 20, 2019 12:43:12 GMT
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Ok. So I have got my Glasurit clear (923 666) in a dented tin for the bargain price of £42 delivered when afaik the proper price is £142 and I have my eye on the hardener (929 666) at £60-odd but could prob get it cheaper if I wait. However for some reason I have spare cash and am thinking of biting the bullet and getting the 3-stage filter thing. The DeVilbiss ones are over £300 but there are ones that look identical for under £200. The listing for the pukka ones says 'don't be fooled by imitators' and the listing for the cheaper ones says 'don't get ripped of (sic) buying over-priced equivalents' Does anyone have any opinions on this? Are they made in same factory? lol DeVilbiss £336.91cheaper one £199
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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May 20, 2019 15:54:43 GMT
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May 22, 2019 12:34:16 GMT
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There is a 3rd option which is a little cheaper.
You CAN spray in a garage with a good 2K 3M disposable mask which is designed to filter 2K isocyanites safely for when you are mixing paints or rollering/brushing.
BUT!!!
It is ONLY safe to do so if you have GOOD, and I mean GOOD extraction fitted. By GOOD I mean it will empty your entire garage of air in under a minute, this is not a vent axia fan from the kitchen, but a proper extractor fan (of if you are clever a big 16"+ fan from a car with a high power supply to it will suffice). This sort of extraction will slam your garage door when on and will make windows difficult to open.
It is safe to use a roller or brush with a correct 3M mask in a WELL VENTILATED AREA or outside.
Protective clothing is sensible or normal clothing covering your skin which you should remove after painting and wash immediately. Wear Nitrile gloves when using the paint as it can be absorbed through skin (especially open wounds) but is more readily absorbed through 'wet' areas of the body such as eyes and ears (and of course nose & mouth).
Wear a hat/hair cover! or have a shower after painting - paint will be in your hair and will then be breathed in afterwards or traqnsfer to your house/body.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,383
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Aug 28, 2019 23:05:22 GMT
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Hi guys. Thanks for all the input. I just re-read it Anyway. I now have the hardener for my clear (£60 iirc) and I took the plunge and bought the dearest 3-stage thingy. Been waiting that long I thought what difference does £130 make. As @grumpynorthener said before there will be an assumption that this thing is sucking the 2K poison out of the air but I realise now it's just to feed clean air to your mask from outside the area the paint is being sprayed in. My plan is to put my compressor for the mask outside the workshop and have the one for the spraying inside as normal. I forsee quite a bit of faffing about ahead to get the hoses/fitting all sorted out but am nearly there. Also need to buy my 'colour'. The first two jobs am planning to do are very small: - Yamaha RD250C oil tank. It has already had silver basecoat (1K acrylic) and next step is (translucent) candy blue. The colour-match comes from a vendor in Germany and I'm pretty sure it is 2K but they didn't answer when I asked
- Yamaha XJR1300/Honda CB125TDC: I have someone elses's XJR1300 and the tailpiece was a bit of a mess. he asked me to re-spray it years ago and was predictably unimpressed when I did it with rattle-can and 1K clear. for some reason the metellic in the silver seemed to flat/smudge when I put the clear on. never had that before. anyway he's asking again for me to sort the paint on tank etc and I don't want to ruin it so plan is to do the (low value) Honda in the XJR colour as a dummy-run and if it's up to scratch then do the XJR
this box contains £336 worth of filter specwhat you get
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2019 23:06:48 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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