Ray Singh
Posted a lot
More German exotica in my garage now
Posts: 1,985
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I need your help please! I have a Porsche 944 and it is driving me insane. It has what appears to be a fairly new battery installed with Eurocarparts stickers. It is Lion brand. Once connected in the car, it will last a day before being too flat to turn the engine over. For this reason I have connected a clever trickle charger/conditioner to keep it at its best. However, what I didn't realise is that the trickle charger/conditioner are not available when I go to work, so last week, I broke down.
When I take the batter out of the car and apply my charger, it take the battery to around 13.94V - measured using multitier. If the multitier is kept applied to the terminals of the battery I can see the voltage dropping down, quite fast, perhaps 13.94v, after 1 sec 13.93v, after another sec 13.92v etc.
I don't want to buy a new battery for £100 and find its something in the car eating through the battery - any ideas on what I can do. Its driving me mad!!
Any help appreciated - including "I will take the car away" at the moment! (well not quite).
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Last Edit: Jun 17, 2016 8:01:00 GMT by mgbizzle
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Ray Singh
Posted a lot
More German exotica in my garage now
Posts: 1,985
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Thanks MGBizzle - that's my fathers day sorted. I will follow these instructions and see how I get on. I have lost confidence in the car and that is a big part of the love for any retro car.
Cheers! Rav
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Is this the same 944 that you're trying to sell in the For Sale section?
That's not a very good advert for it, is it?
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Jun 17, 2016 14:20:24 GMT
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Is this the same 944 that you're trying to sell in the For Sale section? That's not a very good advert for it, is it? Listed as needing work and with a link to the build thread detailing the issues... An honest advert then, which is what we all want to see. Anyway, if the fuses don't give you any results after being pulled, the alternator and starter motor can also cause a battery drain. Ruined Christmas a couple of years ago for me when that happened.
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Jun 17, 2016 17:31:23 GMT
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Before investigating battery drain I'd check battery condition. Just because it might be brand new doesn't mean it might not be faulty - and then possibly replaceable under warrantee.
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Jun 18, 2016 11:33:39 GMT
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We don't use lion batteries at work as they have given us issues, we normally use an exide from euros.
pop down to your local garage to get it tested before you do anything.
batteries are 12.5/6 volts not connected/resting, 13.4 volts should be whilst running/charging.
i haven't read the link, but to test for a drain would be the following -
Disconnect the battery negative terminal, make sure you can access the fuse boxes, apply a multi meter between the battery and the earth strap you have disconnected (i normally clamp them on with a pair of mole grips)
Set the multi meter to amps (not milli amps as they normally have a small fuse that you can blow easily) you should see no more than 0.05 amp draw.
initially when you connect the multi meter you will see more then that, but leave it for 5 mins or so to settle down again making sure all interior lights are off.
if you have more then that then it will be a case of removing one fuse at a a time to see what drops.
as above if its none of the fuses, then disconnect the alternator as this has been known to give faults.
word of caution, do not try to turn anything on with the multi meter connected, or open any doors, if doors are open make sure you switch the courtesy light off as you can blow a fuse in the meter.
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Jun 18, 2016 12:49:29 GMT
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Hi, As above except I usually use a bulb, a more visual indication and more tolerant of a load being switched on like the interior lights. First stops for disconnecting would be clock and radio. If still alight after that the alternator, then round the car.
Colin
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,258
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jun 18, 2016 16:45:57 GMT
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As a few said I try not to touch cheap batteries if I can help it ; it can be a false economy. Exides are not much more and IME a very tough battery for what they are. That said, I also am wary of pricier batteries ; I for instance will not buy a Bosch S5 again after having 2 of them go iffy on me as well as a friend's Clio show similar issues (the others were in Ford Mondeo Mk3s; the Exides in them have been fine). Basically, you - Disconnect the negative battery terminal
- -put your multimeter onto the amps setting, starting off with the highest denomination and work your way down.
- Put one multimeter lead onto the battery post and the other onto the battery connection - the meter is in series with the battery
- Ensure all of your doors are shut - a light being on could give you a false reading. Also make sure your ignition is off
- See what the drain is and replace (pull out and reinsert) the fuses one by one until you find a drain
- If you find the drain you have found your problem.
I have to ask however: - Does your HU turn off with the ignition or do you have to turn it off yourself?
- Does your car have a factory Porsche immobiliser?
- Do you leave the boot or car door open when you leave it at home? - Porsches have a a feature where the windows are left powered irrespective of the ignition being on if a door is open, meaning you can open or close your windows if you forgot to do it when in the car - This can also cause a drain
Anyway, good to see you getting stuck in. FWIW on previous cars the following caused drains for me: -Handsfree accessory - But it was remnants of police equipment - I don't know why it had it like that. -HU (head unit) wiring incorrect - My Clio would always start but with a new HU it would almost run flat after a day - the previous HU owner wired it up to stay on all of the time. -Bulb staying on all of the time like a glovebox bulb etc. On my RST the wiring to the clock was done wrong, and the light would stay on all of the time. This light was enough to flatten the battery within 2 days. The previous owners thought it was an immobiliser problem: Was it curse word - after sorting out the wiring the car could happily be started after 2 months on the same battery.
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Last Edit: Jun 18, 2016 16:56:30 GMT by ChasR
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Jun 18, 2016 17:46:20 GMT
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I've got a Gunson ammeter that fits in place of a fuse than then shows if any current passing through the circuit - Using a fuse holder that fits on the pick-up I have the option of then having croc clips or connecting to different sized fuse holders.
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Not that it helps you with your problem, but all this talk about buying certain brands of Battery is wrong.
I used to work in a car battery factory and all car batteries such as the brands mentioned (except maybe Bosch) are made in developing world countries and brand enginered by applying a sticker.
Most of the time, when it comes to price, you are paying more because the guarantee is longer. The battery is no different, except for the stickers and guarantee.
The manufacturer I used to work for used to reguarly remove and swap stickers on batteries if we didn't have enough of a certain brand to fufill an order.
Since Exide & Lucas batteries stopped production in this country, most of the car batteries produced abroard are very cheaply made and are not great quality. (Including O.E. brands).
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Last Edit: Jun 19, 2016 9:29:49 GMT by Porsche
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,258
Club RR Member Number: 170
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The only Boschs I have had that are any good are the S4s. IMHO the S5s are a waste of money ; you do wonder why Halfords went to Yuasa for their 5 year batteries...
I've seen 3 S5s fail and cause issues. Getting one of them changed under warranty was a royal pain as well with the vendor trying every excuse under the sun not to warrant it.
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I've got a Yuasa battery out for next passing tatter at present. Bought for my Sprite and never fitted but kept on conditioning type battery charger. Despite being just over 12 months old it now only holds just under 11v so duff. I thought Yuasa were a quality brand and actually paid more than an economy brand for it - next time I'd go for warrantee length rather than name.
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Ray Singh
Posted a lot
More German exotica in my garage now
Posts: 1,985
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Happy fathers day!
I am outside with my miltimeter in one had and a 10mm spanner in the other. Ok, so meter in the circuit - current draw 28mA. I wired in the radio, so that was my first port of call. I removed it completley - current draw now done to 10mA.
I have checked around the car and cannot see any bulbs on or anything else suspicious.
Do i continue with the fuses?
My neighbour popped over - he told me that the magic eye on the battery should glow green, It is a dull green colour. Actually when I charged it in prep for today - liquid was leaking out via the vent..
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Last Edit: Jun 19, 2016 9:57:08 GMT by Ray Singh
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Jun 19, 2016 10:52:40 GMT
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you do wonder why Halfords went to Yuasa for their 5 year batteries... Yuasa brought out Lucas Batteries when Lucas industries was being broken up and then because of customers like Halfords wanting a price reduction year in year out forced them to shut the production side of the U.K. business and import cheaply produced batteries from Indonisia for example. We used to unload them from the lorry and test them only to find they were already worth no more than scrap. Bosch most probably told them to do one when they asked them to supply batteries at such a cheap price. Halfords put, maybe 80% proffit on their batteries from what they buy them for.
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Jun 19, 2016 11:11:10 GMT
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I've got a Yuasa battery out for next passing tatter at present. Bought for my Sprite and never fitted but kept on conditioning type battery charger. Despite being just over 12 months old it now only holds just under 11v so duff. I thought Yuasa were a quality brand and actually paid more than an economy brand for it - next time I'd go for warrantee length rather than name. Like I said... brand engineering. Nothing more than a sticker change for the manufacturer. Before they closed the Lucas/Yuasa production factory in Birmingham, Yuasa branded thier batteries with such names as Lucas, Yuasa, Oldham, Exide, Halfords, Varta, Shield, Banner & Tugstone but to name just a few. This was fine when the batteries being built were good quality British built batteries, as when you were buying a budget brand, you were infact buying an O.E. quality battery with a budget brand sticker. But when they started importing budget batteries and labeling them with quality brand stickers, the tables were reversed.
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Last Edit: Jun 19, 2016 11:12:09 GMT by Porsche
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Jun 19, 2016 12:52:30 GMT
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We used to have a small local firm, Finch Batteries in Fenton, who built the old type batteries with a hard case then tar top. I bought one for my car and then, when car scrapped, used the battery for years on an Acto battery powered mower. Even when totally dead you could take it back to Finch and they would rebuilt with new internals,
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,258
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jun 19, 2016 18:26:48 GMT
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you do wonder why Halfords went to Yuasa for their 5 year batteries... Yuasa brought out Lucas Batteries when Lucas industries was being broken up and then because of customers like Halfords wanting a price reduction year in year out forced them to shut the production side of the U.K. business and import cheaply produced batteries from Indonisia for example. We used to unload them from the lorry and test them only to find they were already worth no more than scrap. Bosch most probably told them to do one when they asked them to supply batteries at such a cheap price. Halfords put, maybe 80% proffit on their batteries from what they buy them for. It still doesn't change the fact that the Bosch S5 batteries IME and a friend's are w*nk in all honesty. Never have I ever taken a battery back within the warranty period twice ; the same car is still OK 2 years later on another battery, so I doubt it was the car killing them . Good riddance if you ask me, especially if they were asking top brass for it. I guess what you are saying now is that most batteries made by other companies are now cheap rubbish, irrelevant of how good the brands used to be? Which battery would you pick in that case? What's take on cars with Ford SmartCharge systems? Would you follow the advice of using Calcium batteries on those or is that rubbish?
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Last Edit: Jun 19, 2016 18:30:54 GMT by ChasR
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Jun 19, 2016 20:32:14 GMT
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I guess what you are saying now is that most batteries made by other companies are now cheap rubbish, irrelevant of how good the brands used to be? Which battery would you pick in that case? Yes, that's what I'm saying. Unforunatly, I can't help with which brand to choose, as I'm no longer in that line of work. I would opt for a Bosch, but they may be buying cheap and re-branding too? My advice is to buy the one with the best guarantee and claim on it if it fails.
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 864
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Jun 19, 2016 20:46:14 GMT
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A time served auto electrician told me years ago that the best battery to buy is the cheapest one with the largest capacity....... for exactly the reasons pointed out by Porsche, they are badge engineered and the extra costs just pay for a longer warranty.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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