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I'm so looking forward to seeing the video of your faces when you give it the beans for the first time on a nice long straight road.
It'll be a mixture of "ooh, this has got some poke", "how many points have I got left on my licence" and "holy sh1tballs I think I'm going to die soon " if mine is anything to go by!
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Jul 21, 2019 18:54:42 GMT
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"holy sh1tballs I think I'm going to die soon " is about 50mph in my car. 40 if it's been raining.
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Jul 21, 2019 19:10:16 GMT
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"holy sh1tballs I think I'm going to die soon " is about 50mph in my car. 40 if it's been raining. There's one bit of dual carriageway by me that is a nice "open it up and clear the carbs" stretch. On a good day I get to the speed limit far quicker than other traffic expects, and if it's damp I just try to stop the back end from overtaking the front at walking pace. Its not a relaxing drive... |
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Jul 21, 2019 19:30:46 GMT
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Have to wait a bit longer for driving video  We swapped the dynamo over, cleaned up the fan and sprayed it black, we just wire brushed it... so it’s not great but it no longer stands out as rusty with the clean tinwear. But we couldn’t get the front pulley off, with isn’t a huge problem as it’s rusty, so we were going to replace it anyway as it’ll wear the belt. So we had to butcher it to get behind the pulley and lever it. So need a new top pulley before we can drive.  We then fitted the clutch and then bolted the engine back in..... Thought we’d check it. Put it into gear and rocked the Fug forward and it rolled, that’s not right! So pulled the engine again, checked the friction plate, it’s worn, but locks up and can’t turn it with the pressure plate fitted (we’ll get a new friction plate and fit it now for peace of mind) as wondered if there was a problem after skimming. The friction plate engages with the splines, as we had to turn over the engine to get the splines to engage when we fitted it. So checked the clutch release arm. The slave cylinder was pushing on the arm and holding it off fully releasing. So we disconnected it and checked again and was still the same. We’ve got a beetle slave cylinder to fit (as we were getting some dragging problems just before swapping engines) Position of release arm with slave  And released  Pull through slave cylinder So swapping the cylinder is fairly easy, just need to remake the end of the hard line and get a flexi made up. But with the release arm disengaged we still didn’t have any drive! Checked the friction plate on the splines and can move the Fug by turning it. The flywheel works ok, as we’ve had it running without the clutch with no problems After some thought checked the arm for free play and can’t feel any, though I can move the arm fairly easily, so wondered if we had the wrong thrust bearing and it was holding the clutch on... but would expect the arm to be harder to move as it’s a stage 2 one So currently a bit confused, I thought it was a lightened 1600 flywheel, with Kennedy stage 2 pressure plate and unknown friction plate. I suspect it’s a mismatch problem and we have the wrong thrust bearing or something... but not sure what’s wrong So any help would be awesome!  Anyway, we’ve sacked worrying about it, we are only popping to bugjam for the day, so can take the van! That way we won’t have to stress about getting it running before the weekend! Oh.... and one of the bracing bars hits the exhaust, so all the measuring and running conduit between the points went wrong somewhere.... that’s a fairly easy fix, even if not that tidy! |
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Jul 21, 2019 19:51:51 GMT
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I hate snagging stuff, especially after something like fitting that lovely exhaust and just wanting to take it out an play. But it'll all be worth it and a year from now, mostly forgotten Although I've nothing constructive to offer as to why the clutch might have gone weird, sorry  |
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Jul 21, 2019 20:27:32 GMT
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John, post up a couple of photos of the clutch and the inside of the bellhousing. I suspect you've got a mix of early and late parts, but I'll know if I see them.
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Jul 21, 2019 20:38:55 GMT
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Out of the box thought but are you sure it was in gear - ie had the detent screw worked out on the linkage...
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Ok, looks like a later guide tube transmission, and the clutch doesn't have the ring on the centre of the pressure plate, so that should work.
One thing that does strike me is in the last photo the friction plate looks a bit strange. I know it's a non sprung centre, but the splined bit looks like it is protruding towards the flywheel, not the pressure plate. Could it be something as daft as the friction plate being in backwards? If not, I'd start looking at the hydraulic cylinder, although if it worked fine with the last engine it should be ok.
When you get a new top pulley, get a decent one - cheap ones just wobble out the woodruff key! CSP are supposed to be excellent, but I'd avoid most aftermarket curse word!
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Jul 22, 2019 10:27:04 GMT
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Out of the box thought but are you sure it was in gear - ie had the detent screw worked out on the linkage... Put the friction plate on the output shaft and turned it and it moved the Fug, so was definitely in gear But know what you mean, afterwards I have been thinking did I actually do this or that |
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Jul 22, 2019 11:16:55 GMT
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Ok, looks like a later guide tube transmission, and the clutch doesn't have the ring on the centre of the pressure plate, so that should work. One thing that does strike me is in the last photo the friction plate looks a bit strange. I know it's a non sprung centre, but the splined bit looks like it is protruding towards the flywheel, not the pressure plate. Could it be something as daft as the friction plate being in backwards? If not, I'd start looking at the hydraulic cylinder, although if it worked fine with the last engine it should be ok. When you get a new top pulley, get a decent one - cheap ones just wobble out the woodruff key! CSP are supposed to be excellent, but I'd avoid most aftermarket curse word! I wondered if the friction plate was slipping at first, so took it out measured it (6.5mm) and it’s a bit worn but should be ok. We reinstalled it and it is gripped by the pressure plate. Definitely installed with the splined bit outwards to the box, pretty sure it wouldn’t go in the other way. I shall go and take some measurements off of the 1300 tonight, and then we can drop this engine and compare. I’m working in Coventry on Wednesday so hopefully can get any bits I need on the way home. Tom finishes school on Wednesday too, so we may get some time before the weekend |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,882
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Jul 22, 2019 11:33:38 GMT
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If the box is in gear, the plate clamped and there is at least a modicum of free play on the release then it would only leave that the splines are not engaged due to the plate being the wrong one for the assembly, that or the diff is missing.
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Jul 22, 2019 14:22:23 GMT
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I clicked on this post hoping to see 2 big smiling faces after a drive, but I guess I'm too early! sorry cant help with any clutch/gearbox tips!
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Jul 22, 2019 19:52:11 GMT
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I clicked on this post hoping to see 2 big smiling faces after a drive, but I guess I'm too early! sorry cant help with any clutch/gearbox tips! Soon!!! Think I’ve worked it out |
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Jul 22, 2019 20:14:57 GMT
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Right, It’s too hot, but lots of measuring results in 2 problems The mating surfaces on the flywheel for the pressure plate bolts and friction face are 21mm apart. The pressure plate, from mounting face is 13mm The friction plate is 6.5mm so it should be rattling around in there.... but... We had the flywheel skimmed, and though the same amount of material was taken from both faces, the flywheel bolt head now sits further out, and the centre of the friction plate clamps to it to stop the plate moving, but has very little friction when it comes to turning the engine So, we could probably swap the friction plate, but as soon as it wears we’ll get this problem again... realistically we should swap the flywheel too I think... so will get ordering From measurements the friction plate sits here, so was engaged fully on the splines  There is a witness on the back of the friction plate where it has hit the flywheel bolt  And the flywheel and bolt  |
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Wow, that's a new one to me! I've seen it on a flanged crank with a floater clutch and a four puck disc (I even had to turn the heads of the bolts down in a lathe! Stupid race parts!) but never on a stock set-up.
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Wow, that's a new one to me! I've seen it on a flanged crank with a floater clutch and a four puck disc (I even had to turn the heads of the bolts down in a lathe! Stupid race parts!) but never on a stock set-up. Suspect the flywheel has been skimmed before and didn’t even think to check. Did think we could modify stuff to make it work, but it’s probably easier in the long run to keep stuff off the shelf where we can |
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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It'd be better to be able to find a stock setup that'd work... or at least a combination of stock parts. That way if you ever need to swap the clutch again at least you'll be able to do it easily without needing access to an engineering firm EDIT: I think that might be what you just said. Only in diferrunt wurds  |
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Not sure I have my head around this, but on my MX5 flywheel with VW clutch plate set up there was an issue that the MX5 plate spec was was 8mm but the VW plate was 9mm so I just shimmed the pressure plate off the flywheel as it would not have disengaged otherwise, still working 1800 miles later. Could you do that and add a washer over the shaft to space the clutch centre off the flywheel?
EDIT - ignore that, was thinking of a different problem - yours is not engaging, not, not disengaging  |
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Last Edit: Jul 23, 2019 10:05:19 GMT by wightfug
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Jul 23, 2019 11:52:49 GMT
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Where in the world are you, John? You've obviously got a good machine shop fairly local, but you need another flywheel to lighten and balance. You can get 200mm flywheels new but not sure of the quality. I've got one that came with a load of engine bits I bought a while back that you're welcome to if you can get it from me in the West Midlands, but it's a heavy beast! Needs some time on a big lathe to get the weight down...
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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