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Feb 22, 2016 21:19:12 GMT
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I was looking through the latest version of Practical classics, and came across this: Retroject Throttle Body (32/26 DGV Replacement)I remember my old mk3 fiesta was single point injection, and a couple of times in the past I wondered about a bolt on injection/replacement for this carb considering how popular it is.
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mylittletony
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Club RR Member Number: 84
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That's cool
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JC
Part of things
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Feb 25, 2016 13:57:22 GMT
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Interesting.... I wonder if this would work well with boost?
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Feb 25, 2016 14:30:52 GMT
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should do if you can fit a large enough injector.
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,872
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Feb 25, 2016 14:37:30 GMT
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Oooh thats really interesting, something like this could be really handy for boosted builds..
Edit: boost was already mentioned haha
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Last Edit: Feb 25, 2016 14:37:59 GMT by adam73bgt
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Smiler
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I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Feb 25, 2016 15:13:51 GMT
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Hmm, triple weber manifold on an old Essex with those fitted...
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Feb 25, 2016 15:47:59 GMT
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Very tempting! I don't know much about spi but could you not connect it and go mpi?
How does spi work with regards to a return line?
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,107
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I've just ordered two...
They expect to ship out in 7 to 10 days. I'll take some details when I have them...
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Feb 26, 2016 11:27:22 GMT
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Nice! Are they for the same engine?
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1966 Ford Cortina GT 2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 978
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Feb 26, 2016 12:25:22 GMT
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Very interesting, I wonder what one of these would be like on an MGB.
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Feb 26, 2016 12:43:17 GMT
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in my experience of factory fitted single point injection systems, they were usually less powerful than well set up carb on the same engine, not any more fuel efficient. it was usually a cheap means to an end to keep the vehicle EURO compliant on emissions and to get the air fuel ratio chemically correct in mid range low load, so not to wipe the catalyst material out
that said, with 3d programmable management things could get interesting
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Last Edit: Feb 26, 2016 12:45:05 GMT by darrenh
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Kieran
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Feb 26, 2016 12:58:22 GMT
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If the set up around £1000, would it not be better to run a megasquirt efi system?
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The Ashby Jackson fleet:-
1979 Mini Clubman 1.8 K series 1978 Skoda 110r Project 130RS K-oupe 1978 Austin Allegro 1500 SDL Estate 1984 BMW K100 Sidecar outfit 1999 Yamaha FZS 1000 Fazer 1991 Kawasaki ZXR400 race bike 2002 Kawasaki ZX9r race bike
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Feb 26, 2016 13:41:17 GMT
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depends how much of a bolt on and go solution you want, for a grand you could go DTA and ITB's on most engines, but its much more involved.
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Feb 26, 2016 15:28:11 GMT
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it comes with two pico 480's which are 200 quid on their own.
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,107
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Feb 26, 2016 16:39:48 GMT
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Yep, same engine. They are bolt on my manifold. My zenith injection inat hybrid is crapola. I guess if you mod leaky carbs into throttle bodies, they are leaky throttle bodies.
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ChasR
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Feb 27, 2016 22:57:51 GMT
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Hmm, triple weber manifold on an old Essex with those fitted... Now that sounds great but also expensive ; £960 for 3 units before even fitting an ECU, loom, pump, and coil pack etc. At that money I wonder if a throttle body conversion could be cheaper although admittedly space could be an issue. in my experience of factory fitted single point injection systems, they were usually less powerful than well set up carb on the same engine, not any more fuel efficient. it was usually a cheap means to an end to keep the vehicle EURO compliant on emissions and to get the air fuel ratio chemically correct in mid range low load, so not to wipe the catalyst material out that said, with 3d programmable management things could get interesting IIRC the SPI systems on factory cars are also way more restrictive than their carb siblings as they purely chased MPG and emissions figures. If the set up around £1000, would it not be better to run a megasquirt efi system? Depends on the car, skill of the person and convenience IMHO. This looks convenient and if it was around when I had the Stag I may well have considered it ; the Holley kits for those cars are around £550 but work well, with the DGMS setup being £400. On a Rover V8 I reckon you would be right , just rob EFI bits from the later cars . My RST however is not quite so easy for me although I would like to be proven wrong. IIRC I need the following: -Either to machine my inlet manifold to take modern injectors (it's on KE-Jetronic) or fit a later manifold but with another later head or remove material from my head on the car. -Fabricate an injector rail or use Ford's own if I use a later manifold -Buy MAP, potentially a TPS sensor if mine would not work, temperature sensor and other things. When I costed it up I think I came to a figure over £1.4k if I went with Emerald with it being £1k on MS - I was guessing at fabrication prices. The Stag would have been way more ; custom manifold along with the rest... depends how much of a bolt on and go solution you want, for a grand you could go DTA and ITB's on most engines, but its much more involved. I thought those kind of kits were may more expensive: www.emeraldm3d.com/engine-management-ecu-ems-conversion-kits/generic-throttle-body-conversion-kits-for-4-cylinder-engines.htmlI've checked DTA's site and it doesn't mention an ECU coming with their 'engine kits' either . But yes, they do seem to be a plug and possible play solution (as said, IBs are more involved to setup). Yep, same engine. They are bolt on my manifold. My zenith injection inat hybrid is crapola. I guess if you mod leaky carbs into throttle bodies, they are leaky throttle bodies. This would be the kincher for me. On a number of old cars I've owned with SUs a lot of them have leaked at the spindles, some which have been refurbished with a spindle kit - maybe they needed an oversized shaft. With leaky spindles you always seem to be at a compromise with setting the car up since it is being setup with an air leak effectively. I guess the other question would be how long do carbs last without air leaks/wear ; most of the cars I have owned are probably over 30 years old... Anyway, just to spice the debate up Holley have been doing such kits for years ; www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_efi/terminator_4bbl_tbi_kits/4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-406www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-511
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Last Edit: Feb 27, 2016 22:58:45 GMT by ChasR
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scimjim
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Feb 27, 2016 23:36:53 GMT
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how do they compare pricewise to Jenvey 45s?
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Last Edit: Feb 27, 2016 23:41:44 GMT by scimjim
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ChasR
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how do they compare pricewise to Jenvey 45s? A tricky one;the application probably counts for alot. I'd probably say the Jenveys have the edge in a number of installations but with the Retroject having near enough all of the sensors built onto it life will be made easier when it comes to installing and plumbing things together .
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Mar 16, 2016 14:11:37 GMT
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I also found this interesting. I have been collecting parts to EFI my 604 which has this nightmare 34TBIA+35CEEI setup. So far I have a Ford Falcon throttle body and a kit to build a megasquirt to control it, and very little progress.
The Ford Falcon throttle body also has integrated injectors and I am told will bolt down where the 35CEEI currently sits (which is similar to 38DGAS anyway).
If I was in the same place now I would probably have bought this instead.
One difficult aspect of the the Falcon throttle body is that there is no separate idle valve, the Ford system uses a motor to open the main throttle, and the motor is not compatible with megasquirt. I have to decide whether to bodge in some other kind of motor, or whether to put a separate idle valve in parallel where the 34TBIA was.
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Mar 16, 2016 14:51:18 GMT
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by the way my throttle body thing is what they call a CFI system from a Ford Falcon EA 3.9.
It has two built in injectors and a built in pressure regulator. The injection pressure is quite low and I did struggle a bit to find a pump with a low enough output pressure. It will make the plumbing easier and safer though.
I won't be the first person to megasquirt one of these and fit on a 604 which helps.
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