Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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With fuel prices dropping now is a prefect time for a petition to abolish VED all together and simply add an additional charge "at the pump" to cover. Doubt that would ever happen, imagine the uproar from people with £0 tax cars. £0 tax cars will be disappearing soon anyway, they'll only be allowed to pay £0 for the first year or two.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Doubt that would ever happen, imagine the uproar from people with £0 tax cars. £0 tax cars will be disappearing soon anyway, they'll only be allowed to pay £0 for the first year or two. What about £20/30 per year VED cars? There's a lot of them.
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Last Edit: Jan 28, 2016 8:07:53 GMT by VIP
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Plus what happens when the price oil goes back up?
You'll be knocking on £2/litre then with the added VED.
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BLU
Part of things
Posts: 347
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To offset the loss in revenue from VED, you'd need to add around £0.40 to a litre of fuel. Where did that figure come from? Indeed, and I am sure Courier and Taxi drivers would not appreciate that bump. Exactly why the current scheme is unfair. You use the roads more you pay more! I'd happily pay a bit extra on fuel in place of RFL It would save a lot of money for the government too, no policing if you have or haven't got RFL, no admin (reminders etc etc........) Hypothetical situation - Two people both with identical cars, both pay £220 pa road fund licence, whereas one drives 40000 miles a year and the other 2000 miles a year. One pays 0.0055p per mile tax, the other pays 11p per mile tax! It's like having a block tax for your earnings regardless what you earn, imagine the outcry then!
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Last Edit: Jan 28, 2016 8:44:06 GMT by BLU
The future's bright, the future's BLU
Silver 1987 MK2 Fiesta Ghia White 2006 MK6 Fiesta ST150 Yellow 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #279 Green 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Celebration #471 (diesel conversion) Red 2008 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #893
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Have any of you championing this idea actually stepped back and looked at what cars would become exempt? We're talking mk3 golfs and mk6 escorts!
Anyway, it was changed a couple of years ago to essentially make it 40 years rolling. No announcement as such but they've added a year on the budget every year since, and that's how I think it will stay as it conveniently brings us into line with most of the rest of Europe.
If £230 a year really makes that much of a difference to your car ownership, I'd reevaluate if you can afford to own one at all to be honest.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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To offset the loss in revenue from VED, you'd need to add around £0.40 to a litre of fuel. Where did that figure come from? Average mileage for a vehicle per year is now around 7000. Average VED per year is around £320. Let's say average MPG is now 40mpg, not an unreasonable assumption. 7000m/40mpg is 175gallons. 175gallons x 4.5l/gal is 787 litres 787l x £0.40/l for VED is £314.80 Sure, the MPG may be a little on the high side, but even at 30mpg the number still works out to £0.30/l. It's certainly not the 1 or 2 pence people are expecting.
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Jan 28, 2016 10:10:57 GMT
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Where did that figure come from? Average mileage for a vehicle per year is now around 7000. Average VED per year is around £320. Let's say average MPG is now 40mpg, not an unreasonable assumption. 7000m/40mpg is 175gallons. 175gallons x 4.5l/gal is 787 litres 787l x £0.40/l for VED is £314.80 Sure, the MPG may be a little on the high side, but even at 30mpg the number still works out to £0.30/l. It's certainly not the 1 or 2 pence people are expecting. I'm not arguing your calculations. Government has admitted that the current low / nil VED vehicles were never envisaged when the current bands were determined. The thing to look at is not the individual VED per vehicle but the total revenue paid to the government for all vehicles as that is what they need to recoup. So whilst you might have one with VED rate of £320 there might be 10 in £30 or nil band so it's the average not the highest that needs to be used - say £100. So taking £100 it would need 13p extra a litre. What I'm saying is that you can make anything with the figures and since when has the government ever done what is best for the people
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Jan 28, 2016 10:29:26 GMT
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Hi, For all the reasons above it is never going to happen, we will be lucky to keep the 40 yr rolling on a year by year basis with no restrictions.
Colin
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Iain
Part of things
Posts: 351
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Jan 28, 2016 10:39:25 GMT
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I signed it without somehow realising that 25 years is only 1991, so maybe rolling 25 years isn't that realistic.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Jan 28, 2016 10:54:26 GMT
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Average mileage for a vehicle per year is now around 7000. Average VED per year is around £320. Let's say average MPG is now 40mpg, not an unreasonable assumption. 7000m/40mpg is 175gallons. 175gallons x 4.5l/gal is 787 litres 787l x £0.40/l for VED is £314.80 Sure, the MPG may be a little on the high side, but even at 30mpg the number still works out to £0.30/l. It's certainly not the 1 or 2 pence people are expecting. I'm not arguing your calculations. Government has admitted that the current low / nil VED vehicles were never envisaged when the current bands were determined. The thing to look at is not the individual VED per vehicle but the total revenue paid to the government for all vehicles as that is what they need to recoup. So whilst you might have one with VED rate of £320 there might be 10 in £30 or nil band so it's the average not the highest that needs to be used - say £100. So taking £100 it would need 13p extra a litre. What I'm saying is that you can make anything with the figures and since when has the government ever done what is best for the people I wasn't using £320 as an example VED band, that's the average value of VED generated per vehicle.
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Last Edit: Jan 28, 2016 10:57:24 GMT by VIP
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BLU
Part of things
Posts: 347
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Jan 28, 2016 15:52:53 GMT
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Where did that figure come from? Average mileage for a vehicle per year is now around 7000. Average VED per year is around £320. So where have those figures come from? I'm not doubting you just curious if you've got these figures from an official source? I'm all for adding it onto fuel and as you can see I don't exactly have the most fuel efficient cars either!!
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Last Edit: Jan 28, 2016 15:55:51 GMT by BLU
The future's bright, the future's BLU
Silver 1987 MK2 Fiesta Ghia White 2006 MK6 Fiesta ST150 Yellow 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #279 Green 2007 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Celebration #471 (diesel conversion) Red 2008 MK6 Fiesta Zetec S Anniversary #893
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Jan 28, 2016 16:33:41 GMT
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It’s already been up here a gazillion times before and I’ll give you the same response I gave all the rest… I will NOT be signing it! Why would the government give you “free” tax? All it does is neatly define a large group that can be singled out for special treatment. You need to look at the bigger picture rather than saving a measly £200 a year – I’d much rather pay £16 a month and be in the PLG tax band so I can drive my car when I want to. I couldn't agree more, this is the thin end of the wedge and we'll end up like most of Europe with major restrctions on use, please see the bigger picture £200 a year is nothing compared with what many europeans have to put up with to daily an old car, stop being cheapskates!
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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Jan 28, 2016 16:39:42 GMT
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£0 tax cars will be disappearing soon anyway, they'll only be allowed to pay £0 for the first year or two. What about £20/30 per year VED cars? There's a lot of them. It's part of the next budget isn't it? All low VED cars will only remain low for the first few years and then they will go up to a different tarrif? It was obvious something would happen when everyone was trading in corsa's and clio's for aygo's and c1's.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Jan 28, 2016 17:06:43 GMT
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Average mileage for a vehicle per year is now around 7000. Average VED per year is around £320. So where have those figures come from? I'm not doubting you just curious if you've got these figures from an official source? I'm all for adding it onto fuel and as you can see I don't exactly have the most fuel efficient cars either!! Last records from 2013 show average annual mileage has dropped to 7900, from 9200 when recording began in 2002. www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts09-vehicle-mileage-and-occupancyThe actual figure now is probably closer to 7500, I just rounded it down. Even if you plug in the 7900 from 2013 it doesn't make that much difference. As for the average VED value per car, I took this data showing the number of licensed vehicles on the road in 2014, by VED band. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/420387/veg0205.xlsThe 'unknown' section will be vehicles registered before 2001 subject to the <1549cc and >1549cc VED bands, plus imported vehicles where the CO2 figure isn't known. Then I applied the 2015 VED rates to each column to give a total revenue figure, and finally divided this by the number of cars to give an average per car number. That gives us a figure of £170/car. However you also need to factor in revenue gained from other road vehicles, specifically all the LGV/HGVs and buses. That is around 30% of the total vehicles on the road. LGV VED starts at £225/year and HGV VED ranges from £165/year for a rigid 3.5 ton to £1850 for a 40-ton artic unit. Buses are £330/year average depending on passenger capacity. It's these higher VED class vehicles which drag the average up. I used the 2015 VED bandings. £320 is not a precise published figure, but something I've calculated from the data available, taking some averages where actual figures don't exist.
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Last Edit: Jan 28, 2016 17:10:31 GMT by VIP
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Jan 28, 2016 17:08:57 GMT
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What about £20/30 per year VED cars? There's a lot of them. It's part of the next budget isn't it? All low VED cars will only remain low for the first few years and then they will go up to a different tarrif? It was obvious something would happen when everyone was trading in corsa's and clio's for aygo's and c1's. What happens for new car banding is irrelevant here, we're talking about people who have already bought vehicles purely on the fact they attract a low/nil VED band. They'll be up in arms about having to pay significantly more if the tax is put on the price of fuel.
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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Jan 28, 2016 18:14:32 GMT
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It's part of the next budget isn't it? All low VED cars will only remain low for the first few years and then they will go up to a different tarrif? It was obvious something would happen when everyone was trading in corsa's and clio's for aygo's and c1's. What happens for new car banding is irrelevant here, we're talking about people who have already bought vehicles purely on the fact they attract a low/nil VED band. They'll be up in arms about having to pay significantly more if the tax is put on the price of fuel. Eh? But they'll be going, they won't put the cost up for brand new cars and leave all the 2013-15 superminis at £0-£35
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Jan 28, 2016 18:30:42 GMT
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Remember a few years ago when the higher band costs increased massively so that things like 4x4's went from being same amount as "middle of the road" cars to more than double of today ? Around half way down the page shows the historic rates - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Excise_DutyGovernment has pooped on the motorist too many times to not think they wouldn't do exactly the same again to nil & £20/£30 bands in the future. How is a rep doing, say, 25,000 miles a year in a nil band car such as the new Focus Ecoboost paying his share of the road useage compared to a retired mate with a 09 Pathfinder that pays £500 - but only used it to tow a caravan (has a Seat Leon for everyday use) so it's done less than 20,000 miles in nearly 7 years. I don't think there is any answer. Some people will use a tax & MOT exempt vehicle as an everyday car doing the average 7900 miles (which they are entitled to do), others, like my mate, will pay more than their fair share for low annual miles. Biggest problem, as far as I see, is that government regards VED as a way of filling the countries coffers for all purposes and not just spending on the road network. They have already published that this amount is dropping every year due to the increase on manufactures producing low VED band vehicles plus more economical engines so revenue from fuel duty is also dropping as people used less. I think you have more chance of winning the Lottery than predicting what will happen in the future but hopefully we won't go the same as the rest of Europe with restricted usage of classic cars.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Jan 28, 2016 18:40:44 GMT
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What happens for new car banding is irrelevant here, we're talking about people who have already bought vehicles purely on the fact they attract a low/nil VED band. They'll be up in arms about having to pay significantly more if the tax is put on the price of fuel. Eh? But they'll be going, they won't put the cost up for brand new cars and leave all the 2013-15 superminis at £0-£35Actually that's precisely what they are doing. www.carwow.co.uk/news/ved-road-tax-from-2017-0182-2060"Remember, these changes won’t apply to your current car – only to new cars registered from April 2017"
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Jan 28, 2016 18:43:20 GMT
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... that government regards VED as a way of filling the countries coffers for all purposes and not just spending on the road network. Not anymore though, it was announced last Budget that 100% of VED revenue will now be spent on the road infrastructure.
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Rich G
Posted a lot
Keyboard Worrier
Posts: 1,059
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Jan 28, 2016 18:50:25 GMT
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Well said Compo!
By the way, it's not Road Fund License or Road Tax, it's Vehicle Excise Duty, has been for 20-plus years. The gubberment cottoned onto the useviy for anything but the roads decades ago!
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