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That looks ideal - Can you drop me a quick email please (retrocars.ed@kelsey.co.uk) when you've got a mo' as it's much easier to keep track of what's what that way! Don't need all the pics up front, just a couple to remind me which car it is. Cheers Dan
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I'm keen for you to feature the mercedes.
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Instagram - Woodym3evo W114 M104 69 Merc 1 Series 135i M-Sport #thegovernorsclub #TeamAF #baggedbenzuk
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I'm keen for you to feature the mercedes. Send some details on so I've got them 'on file' and I'll be in touch. I do have a large stock of cars to use before shooting more, but I'm always on the lookout for features.
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Woody's Merc is worth a feature
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,614
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And the publishers, who often don't give a toss about cars or our hobby and only produce the magazine for advertising revenue, receive the benefit of your hard work by filling the pages of the mags as cheaply as possible with stuff that's already available for free on the net. That may or may not be true . . . but I have had the 'benefit' of seeing things from both sides of the fence
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Last Edit: Dec 4, 2015 15:53:59 GMT by fogey
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If you had, then you wouldn't have made such a sweeping (and incorrect) statement. For what it's worth none of the Reader Resto features I've put in my other mag have been on any build threads, and several of the ones I've had enquires about from here are also not on any threads. Nor do the publishers gain a single penny by me printing a 'free', as you call it, feature. They pay me a set amount each month and it's up to me how I spend it. Creating a Reader Resto feature is a LOT more work for me than simply getting a feature car.
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,614
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If you had, then you wouldn't have made such a sweeping (and incorrect) statement.
Dan, with respect I was working on magazines before you were old enough to read and write - but, hey, I'm not getting at you so don't take it personally. Things may very well have changed, but in this ever more competitive world I doubt it.
If you had to look elsewhere for features then perhaps that monthly budget would have to be bigger?
At the end of the day, you produce a decent mag - so don't take my comments to heart.
Let's talk cars.
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Last Edit: Dec 4, 2015 16:33:57 GMT by fogey
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I've worked on car mags for well over 15 years and the industry has changed beyond all recognition in that time. So if you've been doing it longer than me, then your idea of what the industry is now is very very far removed from how it actually is.
I'll always take comments to heart when it implies that I'm somehow doing my job 'on the cheap'. But I'll take no further offence, and yes, back to the cars...
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I have a question Dan, a genuine one. If there is "not enough space" to include build photos of the feature cars - where are you finding the room to put a four page spread in about someone elses build?
Four pages is the usual feature spread... so in effect you're getting another feature together, using their photos? I like the concept, no mistake, but I fail to see the logic behind it, and I can certainly understand the sentiments expressed here if you are filling a feature sized slot without the expense of sending a photographer out to obtain the photographs needed for one.
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I have a question Dan, a genuine one. If there is "not enough space" to include build photos of the feature cars - where are you finding the room to put a four page spread in about someone elses build? Four pages is the usual feature spread... so in effect you're getting another feature together, using their photos? I like the concept, no mistake, but I fail to see the logic behind it, and I can certainly understand the sentiments expressed here if you are filling a feature sized slot without the expense of sending a photographer out to obtain the photographs needed for one. Fair questions - Not enough space within the features themselves, not not enough space in the mag. A mag, or at least my mags contain between 6 and 8 feature cars per issue - the more the merrier as it's the primary reason behind people buying the mag in the first place. But I need other relevant features in there too; tech guides, show reports, buying guides etc. The 'Reader Resto' feature falls into this category. So why can't I put build pictures within the feature cars? I currently give cars between 5-7 pages each, as many as required to do them justice. Some of them will have a small selection (maybe 3 or 4 pics) of owner supplied build pictures in a small boxout. Any more than that and it would mean less pictures of the finished car, and/or less text - neither of which I like the idea of. Some builds are worthy of a feature in their own right, and make a refreshing change from the glossy finished feature cars. And some cars have had an interesting build, but the finished car isn't full feature car material, so it's fifteen mins of fame that they otherwise wouldn't get. You've only got to look at the number of hits on build threads, or the crowds at shows around build demos to see that people like this kind of thing. So it makes a good feature, that's undeniable. It's my job to put together the best mag I can with the resources available to me so if I have an idea for a good feature, I'm going to implement it. As for using owner supplied photos - that's no different to the Readers Cars sections in many mags, or the Letters page, or the News/Product pages where PR companies supply photos and words. A lot of pages don't have a direct financial cost attributed to them. If you were to look at the mag's budget and divide it by the number of pages, the money available per page is actually incredibly low. So no, it doesn't cost me money in the same way a feature car does - but it does cost me in time. I'm freelance, and this is my job, so a day of my time costs money. A feature car is generally not that time consuming for me. In an ideal scenario I find the car (or the car comes to me) I speak to the owner, sort out a photographer, a writer and (all being well) a set of pictures and words arrives in my inbox a little while later. I sub the words, check the pictures, package them up and bundle them over to the designer. It then comes back as an Indesign doc. I add captions, folios, pull quotes, any missing copy, sub again, and send back to designer. He then returns the PDF which I check again and send back. It's often a lot more complex than that, and there are a bunch of other related jobs that need to be done, but it's not, in essence a time consuming feature. So far I've done about 10 Reader Restos and all have taken considerably more of my time than a feature car. No one has yet supplied a set of 'print ready' words and pictures, and I wouldn't expect them to. Every single one has required a lot of emails, and lot of explaining and lot of subbing, rewriting, emails asking for more info on a particular aspect, or clarifications, chasing up missing pics, or asking if they're got a pic in a higher res, as one of them is tiny, and requesting once more as they've just sent the same picture again... And often it can be several days between getting replies – and sometimes some people just disappear, and after showing a lot of interest they stop replying to emails, so to hedge my bets I have to have more than one on the go at once. It is not an easy feature to compile. Look at this thread for example - I posted details on how to go about submitting your car for a feature and while I have had quite a few emailed in, I've also had numerous PMs, and several posts on here requesting replies ;-) It's also worth pointing out that this is voluntary. No one's being forced to do it, and everyone who has had a feature so far has been really happy with the end result. By way of payment I can supply a finished PDF of the feature, so it's a physical keepsake of their build compiled in a format that they probably wouldn't be able to do themselves. TL:DR It's not free, and it's a great feature that people like.
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Woody's Merc is worth a feature Thanks mate.
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Instagram - Woodym3evo W114 M104 69 Merc 1 Series 135i M-Sport #thegovernorsclub #TeamAF #baggedbenzuk
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bobman
Part of things
Posts: 109
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chubz
Part of things
Posts: 339
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that nova is lovelyyyyyyyy
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I have a question Dan, a genuine one. If there is "not enough space" to include build photos of the feature cars - where are you finding the room to put a four page spread in about someone elses build? Four pages is the usual feature spread... so in effect you're getting another feature together, using their photos? I like the concept, no mistake, but I fail to see the logic behind it, and I can certainly understand the sentiments expressed here if you are filling a feature sized slot without the expense of sending a photographer out to obtain the photographs needed for one. Fair questions - Not enough space within the features themselves, not not enough space in the mag. A mag, or at least my mags contain between 6 and 8 feature cars per issue - the more the merrier as it's the primary reason behind people buying the mag in the first place. But I need other relevant features in there too; tech guides, show reports, buying guides etc. The 'Reader Resto' feature falls into this category. So why can't I put build pictures within the feature cars? I currently give cars between 5-7 pages each, as many as required to do them justice. Some of them will have a small selection (maybe 3 or 4 pics) of owner supplied build pictures in a small boxout. Any more than that and it would mean less pictures of the finished car, and/or less text - neither of which I like the idea of. Some builds are worthy of a feature in their own right, and make a refreshing change from the glossy finished feature cars. And some cars have had an interesting build, but the finished car isn't full feature car material, so it's fifteen mins of fame that they otherwise wouldn't get. You've only got to look at the number of hits on build threads, or the crowds at shows around build demos to see that people like this kind of thing. So it makes a good feature, that's undeniable. It's my job to put together the best mag I can with the resources available to me so if I have an idea for a good feature, I'm going to implement it. As for using owner supplied photos - that's no different to the Readers Cars sections in many mags, or the Letters page, or the News/Product pages where PR companies supply photos and words. A lot of pages don't have a direct financial cost attributed to them. If you were to look at the mag's budget and divide it by the number of pages, the money available per page is actually incredibly low. So no, it doesn't cost me money in the same way a feature car does - but it does cost me in time. I'm freelance, and this is my job, so a day of my time costs money. A feature car is generally not that time consuming for me. In an ideal scenario I find the car (or the car comes to me) I speak to the owner, sort out a photographer, a writer and (all being well) a set of pictures and words arrives in my inbox a little while later. I sub the words, check the pictures, package them up and bundle them over to the designer. It then comes back as an Indesign doc. I add captions, folios, pull quotes, any missing copy, sub again, and send back to designer. He then returns the PDF which I check again and send back. It's often a lot more complex than that, and there are a bunch of other related jobs that need to be done, but it's not, in essence a time consuming feature. So far I've done about 10 Reader Restos and all have taken considerably more of my time than a feature car. No one has yet supplied a set of 'print ready' words and pictures, and I wouldn't expect them to. Every single one has required a lot of emails, and lot of explaining and lot of subbing, rewriting, emails asking for more info on a particular aspect, or clarifications, chasing up missing pics, or asking if they're got a pic in a higher res, as one of them is tiny, and requesting once more as they've just sent the same picture again... And often it can be several days between getting replies – and sometimes some people just disappear, and after showing a lot of interest they stop replying to emails, so to hedge my bets I have to have more than one on the go at once. It is not an easy feature to compile. Look at this thread for example - I posted details on how to go about submitting your car for a feature and while I have had quite a few emailed in, I've also had numerous PMs, and several posts on here requesting replies ;-) It's also worth pointing out that this is voluntary. No one's being forced to do it, and everyone who has had a feature so far has been really happy with the end result. By way of payment I can supply a finished PDF of the feature, so it's a physical keepsake of their build compiled in a format that they probably wouldn't be able to do themselves. TL:DR It's not free, and it's a great feature that people like. A comprehensive and credible answer, and I thank you for taking the time to do so. I think you've addressed more than just what I was raising so hopefully that will settle anyone else thinking about submitting something as well. It certainly satisfies me enough to submit something, shame I have nothing worth half a page right now never mind a spread. I'm quite surprised that you're freelance too. Things have changed even since I was at mag work as well.
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,614
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As an aside, if someone submitted a car for you to feature which has obviously been modified outside the 8 points system and is therefore technically illegal until passing BIVA, would you still be happy to feature it and publish details of all the mods?
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Last Edit: Dec 6, 2015 13:23:18 GMT by fogey
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,937
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Reader Restos wanted...bstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
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As an aside, if someone submitted a car for you to feature which has obviously been modified outside the 8 points system and is therefore technically illegal until passing BIVA, would you still be happy to feature it and publish details of all the mods? As an aside if someone had done a project like that under the radar would they really be wanting to put it out there for publishing and risk the subsequent backlash Not saying this is what happened just that it's a possibility
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As an aside, if someone submitted a car for you to feature which has obviously been modified outside the 8 points system and is therefore technically illegal until passing BIVA, would you still be happy to feature it and publish details of all the mods? It's not my job to police whether people are in compliance with legal regulations. While I'd obviously never condone illegal activity in the magazine - I can't be expected to request proof of BIVA certification. Should I also request details of their insurance to make sure they've declared all their modifications? Or do a check to see if the car is currently taxed correctly?
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,614
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As an aside, if someone submitted a car for you to feature which has obviously been modified outside the 8 points system and is therefore technically illegal until passing BIVA, would you still be happy to feature it and publish details of all the mods? As an aside if someone had done a project like that under the radar would they really be wanting to put it out there for publishing and risk the subsequent backlash Not saying this is what happened just that it's a possibilityStrangely - this does happen - frequently. Magazines often feature cars running on original plates where the bulkhead/transmission tunnel has been cut to make way for larger power units, with all the details of such modifications in the text.
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Last Edit: Dec 6, 2015 14:52:30 GMT by fogey
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,614
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double post -deleted. Doh!!
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Last Edit: Dec 6, 2015 14:56:24 GMT by fogey
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,614
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As an aside, if someone submitted a car for you to feature which has obviously been modified outside the 8 points system and is therefore technically illegal until passing BIVA, would you still be happy to feature it and publish details of all the mods? It's not my job to police whether people are in compliance with legal regulations. While I'd obviously never condone illegal activity in the magazine - I can't be expected to request proof of BIVA certification. Should I also request details of their insurance to make sure they've declared all their modifications? Or do a check to see if the car is currently taxed correctly? I wasn't thinking in terms of you condoning illegal activity but what if the owner was genuinely unaware that he had broken the rules and then had his V5 withdrawn as a result of his car appearing in a magazine?
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