Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Stuff a pool noodle in the gap. That’ll do. I’ll get my coat... 😂 I'll have a pint of what you're smoking Oddly, my first thought wasn't a million miles away - a padded infil panel similar as used extensively in petervdv's Rover(http://forum.retro-rides.org/post/2375599/thread)? Knock up a base plate that fills the gap (along with some blind fixings like used on door cards), then fit some sculptured foam and cover with something like a Moleskin/alcantara? Non-reflective, easy on the eye but doesn't draw your eye to it? Edit: Missed your reply, bjornagn - Wood is always nice, but if it's in the eyeline, then maybe a slab of it might not be the best?
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Last Edit: Feb 22, 2018 8:13:20 GMT by Phil H
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Feb 22, 2018 13:10:26 GMT
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A big slab of wood at eye line works fine on the P6.
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Feb 25, 2018 22:17:55 GMT
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On a totally unrelated track. picked up a set of 16"wheels from a MINI with and ET of 48. Wheel to wing clearance will work and I like the stance with the 16" rims and a 55 profile. MAYBE a 1" drop in the future, but for now, that goes on the back-burner until I get a feel for how it rides. For a driver, this is fine.
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Feb 25, 2018 22:38:31 GMT
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looks pretty good as it is to me.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Feb 26, 2018 12:48:28 GMT
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Yeah, that looks just about right as is. A nice balance of everything. Looks less modified like that than if you dropped it an inch, which in this instance is better because it's sneakier.
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logicaluk
Posted a lot
Every days a school day round here
Posts: 1,373
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The stance looks perfect, ive been running mini 15" wheels with 165 50 15 tyres i cant go up to the mini 16s as they foul, but ive just picked up a set of seat ibiza cupa 16s and they clear just have to find the pennies for some decent rubber Dan
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Last Edit: Mar 3, 2018 13:16:02 GMT by logicaluk
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Change of plans...paid the missus the $1000 fine and decided that driving the car this summer is not going to happen. Instead, I am going to finish the bodywork and get it painted. Do final assembly over next winter and be ready to roll by spring 2019. The fun has started. The car is nice ans solid. however whoever did the sandblasing did not have a clue. While there wont be a very thick layer of mud anywhere, the car is going to pretty much get slathered in the stuff and sanded smooth. Figure about 100 hours and two gallons most of which will end up on the floor and my nose.
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Change of plans...paid the missus the $1000 fine.... While there wont be a very thick layer of mud anywhere, the car is going to pretty much get slathered in the stuff and sanded smooth. Figure about 100 hours and two gallons most of which will end up on the floor and my nose. A year or so ago I purchased several sizes and styles of Mirka hand sanding blocks and files, both solid and flexible, which connect to a vacuum. Using their mesh abrasives has worked well, capturing a high percentage of dust. Easier on clothes, noses and shop cleanup. www.mirka.com/tools/For_hand_sanding/Perhaps the wife would loan you back a few bucks to buy the tools? In good health, you'll be around longer and she'll have more chances to win future bets... lol Lance
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Mar 21, 2018 14:53:49 GMT
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Just to give everyone an appreciation of how painful it is to get an old car straight. There is 4 hours of sanding between picture #1 and picture #2. Hard to see much difference. Disclaimer: I am NOT an experienced body work professional. Just an amateur who muddles his way through, so these times in no way represent what the job SHOULD take to get done, only what it takes me. That said, I am happy with where I am getting. Figure another 10 hours before I am ready to shoot the front clip in black epoxy high fill.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Mar 21, 2018 16:49:25 GMT
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Those that have done it can see and it'll definitely pay off come paint time. It's really good to see the paintwork being tackled now, quite exciting stage of the project.
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Mar 25, 2018 23:49:28 GMT
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Moving right along. The car is flatting out nicely. Got this far today . While there is a skim over a lot of the tin, the gaps are tin on either side. You do not want a filler edge as it will eventually get a nick. Have this anead of me. Not sure how it will play out. Those are 1/4 or more low spots. NOT going to be filling and sanding over that sinkhole. Options: Buy new door skin.. $500 Find a new rust free door and import to Canada and have sandblasted. Peel off the existing door skin and E-wheel the ripples then re-install? Cut off lower half of door-skin and e-wheel a new lower half from a piece of tin? Panel-beat the bejabbers out of this door until it is close-enough. Stand-by for the exiting conclusion....
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Mar 26, 2018 13:29:39 GMT
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yeah, this is very exciting and rewarding...looking really good.
JP
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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Mar 28, 2018 11:38:44 GMT
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And the beat goes on! The answer was to pry the door-skin off the frame and try to fix it by running through the English wheel. To that end, the doorskin was gently pried off by unfolding the lip around the perimeter. Of course there are a few spots welds that need to be cut and a few welded sections that need to be teased apart, but in the end, we go t this: Remarkably rust free door shell. And the wrinkly patient. Need to remove all the primer from both sides before I can run this through the E-wheel. Having never tried to repair sandblast damage this way, it should be interesting. Since the folded edge will constrain the shape, I have no idea how the panel is going to react. If it all goes sideways, I can always cut the lower half off and make a new repair section. And a day without dust would not be right anymore, so got on with more sanding of filler. The DS is about 90% done. That means I still have 90% of the time to obsess about the minor imperfections before it is really done. This gives you and idea of how I play this game. I scuff the epoxy primer with a 40 grit paper to give the filler some bite and then lay down as smooth a layer as possible over the entire area of interest. Not too worried about where exactly the high or lows might be. Then I take a sanding block and go at it in an X pattern until I start to see shinny metal spots. ( see red arrows) That is your highest common denominator. Sanding past this point is counter productive in that you will just start creating waves between the metal islands. I can still see a few spots where the filler is not sanded, so I will go back and hit those with a layer of mud and repeat with another thin skin, just to make sure. Here is the PS upper quarter before I start sanding. If you look at the previous picture, you get an idea of how much gets sanded back off. Most of it. The vast majority of the filler ends up on the floor. Once all the filler is done, I will cover the lot with a layer of high build and block sand the whole car. Once again, sanding with the blocks down to 220 grit until the metal high spots just start to show up. Then a final coat of eposy and paint. Hopefully by June I will be ready for the paint booth. Better get cracking on finding a painter.
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2018 11:44:35 GMT by bjornagn
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Filler work really is a chore to get perfect, especially for the perceived waste when you look at how much of whatever you put on has to come off to get the profile right. Is the sandblasting damage heat distortion, effectively?
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so good to see this kind of progress!
JP
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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Mar 29, 2018 11:55:35 GMT
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Filler work really is a chore to get perfect, especially for the perceived waste when you look at how much of whatever you put on has to come off to get the profile right. Is the sandblasting damage heat distortion, effectively? Common lore holds that the wavy panels from sandblast damage are from heat build-up. A bit of testing with a scrap panel and an infrared thermometer tells me that cant be the case because there is no perceptible temperature increase when I sandblast a part. What I postulate is that the sand actually compresses the top layer of the metal . In effect, this means that one side of the tin will have a smaller surface area than the other, and the panel will curve.
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Mar 29, 2018 12:28:05 GMT
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Here is a great explanation from over at the HAMB forum....and yes, bjornagn, your postulation seems to hold sand, err, water....
"However, the mechanism that creates warpage is not the heat associated with friction of the abrasives hitting the metal. Rather it is the compressive forces induced within the sheet of metal by the heavy abrasive particles hitting the metal surface. You will not see this same warping when light abrasives are used because they lack the kinetic energy required to compress the molecules in the steel sheet thus leaving the sheet in the same stress state as it was in when formed by the dies at the factory. This is a common misunderstanding, yet this behavior is well understood by some industries and is exploited by those who understand it to improve fatigue life of certain parts (like connecting rods for instance - they are often shot peened to redistribute stresses and place the surface of the rods in compression to reduce fatigue crack propagation). When you blast one side of sheet metal, that side of the sheet metal surface will build compressive stresses and will physically grow - this places the opposite side of the sheet into tension - this will result in the side being blasted to bow up toward the blasting source. In order for warping to occur due to thermal conditioning - the metal actually has to be heated up to a point where the molecules reach a transition state where they go from one packing arrangement to another (close cubic packed to close hex packed) - picture a six pack of beer held together with the plastic rings - that is stress relieved / annealed steel. Now - take the cans out and stack them so that each row of cans is offset by half a can diameter - this is a tighter pack - although less friendly from a packaging standpoint at the grocery store. This new denser orientation is the orientation that steel molecules take on when raised to a sufficient temperature (depends on carbon content and alloys) . . . if you raise steel to this temperature and then quench it - you lock the close packing orientation into this dense packing structure and this results in shrinkage (and increased hardness / brittleness). Using this technique it is possible to take a piece of 1013 mild steel, whack a piece off, heat the piece up and then drop it in a bucket of water, use a water cooled grinder to sharpen it . . . and then you can cut the parent piece of metal with it as it is harder and denser in this condition. Soooooo . . . . that is the difference between warping / shrinkage of metal due to sandblasting (compressive mechanism - localized molecular packing) or due to thermal influences (gross - macroscopic transition of molecules to a higher density due to re-orientation of molecular packing). With all this knowledge in hand (or mind) . . . you now also know that thermal conditioning is typically used to shrink metal on a localized basis where sandblasting will always cause metal to grow on a localized basis. Hope this makes sense . . ."
This was posted by a guy who completely restored a 53 chevy convertible to an incredibly high standard...I followed the build for years....
JP
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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Mar 29, 2018 14:38:00 GMT
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Always love a school day!
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Mar 29, 2018 15:01:19 GMT
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Thanks for the HAMB post. Those guys can be a bit rigid in their dogma, but there is a lot of knowledge.
OK, this is new data that I need to process.
My working theory was that the metal being blasted would compress as it was packed tighter together. So, if we draw a line halfway through the thickness of a sheet of steel, and compress the top layer as we blast it with grit, my working theory says that the metal will form a bowl in the direction of the side being blasted.
The above author puts forth the opposite theory that the metal will be spread out thinner and want to bow away from the blasted surface.
What I need to process now is whether it makes a difference to how to fix the damage. My plan was to stretch the panel in the E-Wheel. The E-wheel makes metal thinner hence expanding the surface area. If what I am fighting is an area the has already been expanded, then by running it in the wheel I will make it worse. Or maybe I will end up with a panel that has too much CROWN and have that to resolve. At that point it might be easier to just make a new lower half doorskin wheel in the shape and butt-weld it to the original at the body-line. Be easy enough to metal- work the seam with the panel off the car.
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,426
Club RR Member Number: 84
Member is Online
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Mar 29, 2018 16:23:36 GMT
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OK, this is new data that I need to process. My working theory was that the metal being blasted would compress as it was packed tighter together. So, if we draw a line halfway through the thickness of a sheet of steel, and compress the top layer as we blast it with grit, my working theory says that the metal will form a bowl in the direction of the side being blasted. The above author puts forth the opposite theory that the metal will be spread out thinner and want to bow away from the blasted surface. I didn't really understand the logic of that either, I'd suggest checking it if I were going to undertake any bodywork based on it... Really enjoying watching your progress though
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