Rob
Posted a lot
You know, for kids!
Posts: 2,515
|
|
May 22, 2007 21:46:56 GMT
|
I really lke the idea of moving the rack forward and below the engine. This would free up the firewall rack position nicely. Re. Mr Ackerman's angles... So, when the wheels are turned the lines intersent at the same 'vanishing point' along the line of the rear axle. Makes perfect sense. But I'll leave the maths for a day without beer ! TrevD - thanks for the shout re fab. You might get a PM if that's ok ? What would be the best thing to fab out of?
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 24, 2007 17:15:03 GMT
|
If you move the rack forward, you will need a rack off a car that has it mounted in that position, otherwise when you turn the wheel left, the wheels will turn right!
|
|
|
|
paulw
Part of things
Posts: 217
|
|
May 24, 2007 20:26:51 GMT
|
That is an extremely good point, saabsled, and I can't find it now but I did see a forum where someone had done a load of work and ended up with just that problem Ackerman is important, not least because you don't want to wear your tyres out but only really has an effect when the wheels are moving through a wide angle, in most cornering you are leaning on the outside wheel and not turning the wheels that much, so bumpsteer will affect you much more, cause if it's wrong then the car will be doing a rodeo bull impression with every rut in the road. A mate with a '34 Ford got this wrong and it just dived around the road like a Oliver Reed on a monkey bike. Scary. There's two rules for Ackerman, some think the insection should be at the centre of the back axle, others two-thirds of the way along the wheelbase, but in the perfect point is probably between the two and depends on how much your wishbones and bushes deflect when you're cornering hard, because this moves the steering arms in relation to the rack. Early Lotus racing cars used to run with incorrect Ackerman because Chapman thought that having the wheels parallel to cut down on wind resistance was more important than the angle of the inner wheel. Bit mad but he did know a thing or two so maybe he was onto something. Wouldn't make any sense on a road car mind.
|
|
Lotus Seven '58 Ford Special 64 Barracuda
|
|
|
|
May 24, 2007 22:10:43 GMT
|
Good point! I was going to mention that, but if you're even thinking about moving your steering rack and haven't noticed that, should you really be doing it? As for Ackerman, even the mainstream boys can get it wrong, the Sunbeam Tiger a text book case - Tiger, Tiger
|
|
|
|
B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
|
|
May 24, 2007 22:51:49 GMT
|
U CAN MOVE IT UP OR DOWN AS LONG AS IT IS THE SAME ANGLE compared to the lower arm angle.. viewed from the front.. ie if you move the rack dowm 4 inches the arm conected to the strut needs to meet the trackrod end knuckle at exactly 4 inches lower also and within the same plane (distance away from the strut) also it has to be in the same angle looking from the top ie plan view to give the same ackerman...
if moved in front it has to have the same angle but oposing (angled outwards) on the same imagenary line of ackerman also remember that if a rack is mounted at the front when it used to be behind the stearing pivot point.. then the car will turn the wrong way than the wheel is turned...!! a lhd rack of the same type can be mounted upside down to overcome this... or a rack that is normally used infront the stearing pivot.. but the rack must be at least the same width of inner pivoting ball joints as the inner pivots of the bottom arm pivot ar the arc radius will affect the toe in/out causing bump steer etc... i hope this helps.... its hard sometimes to get across what i am meaning without knowing your perticular background on chassis dynamics.. si
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 24, 2007 23:07:19 GMT
|
As for Ackerman, even the mainstream boys can get it wrong, the Sunbeam Tiger a text book case - Tiger, TigerMGCs have poor steering geometry too. There's a guy who races one, and after having new steering arms made to alter the geometry to pure Ackermann* (all calculations & machining etc done by someone I used to work for), his lap times improved vastly *ie wheels always following Ackermann angles thoughout their entire arc of movement, rather than just at full lock & straight ahead However, then there's the principle of anti Ackermann, which cannot be calculated.....
|
|
|
|
Rob
Posted a lot
You know, for kids!
Posts: 2,515
|
|
|
As you said - I would have thought that would be in the research stage not the development ! There may be something in trying a LH upright on the RH side... There is an identical thread on NSRA but they've run out of server space so can't join ! NSRA
|
|
|
|