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Feb 14, 2014 12:23:33 GMT
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Feb 14, 2014 13:14:09 GMT
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Let's hypothesise. You own an old car. You've owned it for 20 years. It is destroyed in, say, a fire. The only bit that is saveable is the chassis plate. You buy a whole load of bits including a bodyshell and everything you need. You put it all together and you put your chassis plate and number plates on it? Have you committed a crime? V. true, + let's not forget all the recreated VSCC vintage racing cars that were reborn from a chassis number identity and the odd spare crankcase. They often start from a point where someone buys the identity and a few odd parts before beginning the project. But it is done openly, often with the involvement of the marque owner's club. The crime is where a vehicle gets stolen and ringed. Stealing is illegal, ringing is illegal. I wouldn't ever argue against that.
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Feb 14, 2014 13:29:03 GMT
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Let's hypothesise. You own an old car. You've owned it for 20 years. It is destroyed in, say, a fire. The only bit that is saveable is the chassis plate. You buy a whole load of bits including a bodyshell and everything you need. You put it all together and you put your chassis plate and number plates on it? Have you committed a crime? V. true, + let's not forget all the recreated VSCC vintage racing cars that were reborn from a chassis number identity and the odd spare crankcase. They often start from a point where someone buys the identity and a few odd parts before beginning the project. But it is done openly, often with the involvement of the marque owner's club. The crime is where a vehicle gets stolen and ringed. Stealing is illegal, ringing is illegal. I wouldn't ever argue against that. I agree absolutely. Stealing is illegal. Ringing can be illegal (I'm not convinced that it *always* is - see above). And I'm not arguing against that. I'm simply explaining that a previously posted dogmatic statement of fact that selling a V5 and VIN is (not, "might be" or "might lead to") a crime is, in my view wrong. What is the crime in selling a VIN plate and V5? If it's a crime, surely one of you extremely knowledgeable people can tell me what it is? For the third time, I'm not condoning it, just pointing out what I think are factual inaccuracies in other posts that others may take as fact. It's wrong. It shouldn't be allowed and should be a crime, but that's not to say it is So, what is the crime that you would be committing?
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Feb 14, 2014 13:49:34 GMT
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They should legalise the sale of class A drugs - it's not a problem if the buyer just puts them in a box on a shelf without taking them.
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Feb 14, 2014 13:55:23 GMT
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From another forum "selling a vin plate and V5c to someone who uses that on a stolen car will mean you are done for aiding and abetting a criminal when the criminal is caught".
And from someone else "to keep a cars identity, you have to include a full or part chassis, or the parts included are of a amount substantial enough to allow the re-use of the cars identity, otherwise the sale is illegal and can come back to bite you when the cars ID is used to ring a stolen car"
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Feb 14, 2014 13:57:31 GMT
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,416
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Feb 14, 2014 14:51:57 GMT
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That was indeed an interesting read!
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Feb 14, 2014 17:38:31 GMT
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Quoting someone on another forum who is just as wrong as you wasn't exactly the sort of authoritative reference I was looking for.
Forget it. What's the point?
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 14, 2014 17:55:50 GMT
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Your like a broken record . Pandaselector has already said that memebers of the police have said its illegal . Can we get back on track please . Thankyou .
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Feb 14, 2014 18:03:57 GMT
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Oh well, that's fine then. Somebody said that somebody said it was illegal. I'm satisfied now.
Learn to spell while you're learning to think for yourself.
For the avoidance of doubt, the simple act of selling a V5 and a VIN is, of itself, not illegal, no matter how many times you say it is.
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 14, 2014 18:09:29 GMT
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Unfortunately there's not a big online directory of all the possible ways you could break the law so that will have to do . If your that curious about call in to your local police station and ask them . Perhaps you could invite them to your shabby lock up and show them your cars which i presume you have changed the identitys on . Perhaps we could steal your Bmw and buy a identity for it and ring it if you like ?
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Feb 14, 2014 18:18:32 GMT
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Logical thought and argument is lost on you. Stick to supposition and hearsay.
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Feb 14, 2014 18:19:13 GMT
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That was indeed an interesting read! + 1! shows authorities aren't really interested in swopped indentities unless a car theft took place making a list of V5s sold on ebay is a good idea in case they turn up later as ringers for stolen cars. There are hundreds of bare bike frames with V5c on ebay. Technically that's legal because they have the frame. I'm sure there's a booming trade in dismantling kosha bikes and selling off all the parts on ebay, then stealing the same model of bike and ringing it with the identity & frame from the dismantled bike.
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 14, 2014 18:32:33 GMT
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Logical thought and argument is lost on you. Stick to supposition and hearsay. Whatever , back to topic please .
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Feb 14, 2014 21:45:54 GMT
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By law you must tell us about any changes to the details on the V5C. When you do, we will send you a new V5C within 3 weeks. If you do not tell us about any change, you could be prosecuted
What to do if you want to scrap your vehicle • You should take it to an Authorised Treatment Facility (ATF) who will make sure that it is dismantled in an environmentally friendly way. The ATF should give you a Certificate of Destruction (CoD). If you do not receive the CoD immediately you must fill in section 9 (V5C3) of the V5C Registration Certificate and send to DVLA. You can get details of your nearest ATF from the Environment Agency.
• If you have broken up the vehicle yourself, you must either tax it or tell us you are keeping it off the public road by making a SORN, until you take it to an ATF or tell us you no longer have it. • If you have passed the vehicle on to a scrapyard or an insurer to be scrapped, follow the procedures explained in section 9 (V5C3).
So by not telling DVLA the vehicle is scrapped you've committed an offence, so I guess technically you can't sell a V5 with incorrect details.
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retired with too many projects!
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Feb 14, 2014 23:40:51 GMT
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Until about 10 mins ago i had a collection of old buff green logbooks that my dad kept from banger racing, back in the 70's he didnt used to register them as scraped as far as i know, he just bought them, raced them, throw them away. I thought it might be nice to get them into the hands of a collector as they were in good condition, and there was a fair stack of them. After reading this and sort of conferming my concerns of what might happen if they got into the wrong hands, they are now ripped up and in the bin, just to save ANY chance of one being ringed.
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I don't see the point of an argument. Selling the ID of a car is not prohibited by law, and that's why it's OK to sell IDs on Ebay, and why there is no point reporting the sale of IDs to Ebay because they wont do anything about it. If anybody is interested, all UK law is available online, and searchable, so please if you believe that selling IDs is illegal, can you find the relevant law and let us all know. Road Traffic Act: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40Vehicle Registration Marks Act: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/14/contentsVehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/contentsAs Bavarianretro has pointed out, just because it may facilitate crime, does not mean it is illegal. What is contrary to civil law is using the internet to call people criminals when they are doing something that is within the law. If I was selling an ID on Ebay, I might not want you lot posting up my auction listing on this page and telling the world it is illegal. Charlie
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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They're not reported on eBay as illegal, they're reported as promoting illegal activity.
What's the point in arguing it, if people havn't changed their mind by 2 pages, they obviously aren't going to. Just report them if you want to, sell them if you don't.
[/end]
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Feb 15, 2014 12:55:45 GMT
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Let's hypothesise. You own an old car. You've owned it for 20 years. It is destroyed in, say, a fire. The only bit that is saveable is the chassis plate. You buy a whole load of bits including a bodyshell and everything you need. You put it all together and you put your chassis plate and number plates on it? Have you committed a crime? Don't you need to be able to prove you have kept a large percentage of the original car to be able to swap the ID over?
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Feb 15, 2014 13:08:01 GMT
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Must have been a bad fire if the chassis melted
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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