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Feb 15, 2014 13:09:42 GMT
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Sorry. Not getting into it all again.
It'll just stir up another battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
I like to try to make sure that what I post is either factually accurate or qualified as my opinion.
Others obviously don't care and are happy to post scaremongering, rumour and hearsay as fact.
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Feb 15, 2014 13:11:01 GMT
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Must have been a bad fire if the chassis melted Ask your sources on another forum for the definition of "hypothesise".
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 15, 2014 15:46:18 GMT
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FFS , the point is theres a good chance it may be used for illegal purposes thats all - end of arguments - if you don't like it don't post - PLEASE KEEP ON TRACK . If your not getting onto it again just don't post , simple really , thankyou .
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 15, 2014 16:03:52 GMT
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I don't see the point of an argument. Selling the ID of a car is not prohibited by law, and that's why it's OK to sell IDs on Ebay, and why there is no point reporting the sale of IDs to Ebay because they wont do anything about it. If anybody is interested, all UK law is available online, and searchable, so please if you believe that selling IDs is illegal, can you find the relevant law and let us all know. Road Traffic Act: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40Vehicle Registration Marks Act: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/14/contentsVehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/contentsAs Bavarianretro has pointed out, just because it may facilitate crime, does not mean it is illegal. What is contrary to civil law is using the internet to call people criminals when they are doing something that is within the law. If I was selling an ID on Ebay, I might not want you lot posting up my auction listing on this page and telling the world it is illegal. Charlie I think you will find if you read through those that you are required to give the vehicle documents to who ever you pass the vehicle on to whether sold or scrapped , not keep hold of them .
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Feb 15, 2014 16:33:46 GMT
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FFS , the point is theres a good chance it may be used for illegal purposes thats all - end of arguments - if you don't like it don't post - PLEASE KEEP ON TRACK . If your not getting onto it again just don't post , simple really , thankyou . And right on cue, the unarmed opponent returns to the fray. My thought process is perfectly clear, whereas you are obviously an imbecile. I take it you chose "Grumpy" because "Retard" wasn't available? "A good chance that it may be....." is a long, long way away from "is", which has been my whole and only point in all of this. How many times do I need to say it? Selling a VIN and a V5 is not OF ITSELF illegal as you and others have stated it is. Surely there is nothing wrong with having factually accurate information in this thread? Surely that is better than having wrong information masquerading as fact?
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 15, 2014 16:46:28 GMT
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No need for resorting to insults . If you read that blokes link to the GOV site is states that documentation and i.d have to be submitted to the new owner , whether scrapped or sold as a car . It is a offence to keep them . So when they are in your possesion for sale or not is a offence . There is no legal reason to buy a vehicle identity as anu change to a vehicle identity is strictly ringing , whether a car is stolen or not . I don't think anyone has stated that selling a i.d is illegal so , its just pretty obvious what some make of cars i.d's will be used for . Keep calm mate you will bring up your haggis .
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Feb 15, 2014 16:52:26 GMT
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Read Pandaselecta's post that I quoted in my first post on this thread. Then read some of your own. You've a very short memory.
I agree - and have said so - that the sale of V5s and VINs is dubious and undesirable, but it isn't illegal. If you're now prepared to finally accept that, we can move on.
People use this forum and others to get information. To me, it is important that the information presented is correct. That's all. It's also important that you don't accuse people, who are doing nothing illegal, of being criminals.
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 15, 2014 17:08:15 GMT
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Jesus christ . You could be done techniaclly for facilitating a crime . Isnt it best that people don't do it and spread the message ? I'm only saying that a out you because you appear to be defending it , and also the insults of ne being a retard etc are unnecessary . Lets just leave it and carry on please .
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Feb 15, 2014 17:24:33 GMT
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The third sentence of my second post made it clear that I'm not defending it. I've made it clear repeatedly that I'm not defending it, but no matter how you weasel around it, it isn't, of itself, a crime. Can you accept that?
Apologies for the admittedly over the top insult, but you really are very obtuse and infuriating. You are wrong. Accept it and we'll all move on.
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Feb 15, 2014 18:01:50 GMT
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Can't you accept its facilitating a crime , still a offence . I have never said its illegal as in a seperate offence . I'm not waeeling out of anything , who do you think you are , the forum police . So you apoligise for insulting me and then call me obtuse and infuriating ? Quite a contradiction . Thanks for completely derailing this thread which was made to try to do something about this problem ,a big round of applause . I'm not going to bother replying to YOUR obtuse nonsense and il leave you to have the last word , as thats obviously what you want .
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Feb 15, 2014 18:21:33 GMT
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I don't think the legalities of selling V5s and Vins is up for debate, well it shouldnt be. This really is about whether its "morally" justified to sell something that COULD end up being used to break the law. On the basis that some recent sellers have been selling vehicle identities on the pretext that the pile of scrap metal they were lifted from could end up back on the road is, frankly horses sh*t, isnt it. Personally, no I don't think V5s and Vins should be sold,there are too many scum bags out there who would use it as an opportunity. I'm quite aware that there are automobilia collectors out there, well, collect other stuff!!! I really don't get the argument over this,ebay don't allow skeleton keys to be sold, even though, hypothetically, I might need a set incase I were to lose the multitude of keys I haphazardly may keep for my tat but I can buy a tax free I.D for a series Landy to make my post 73 tax free and, consequently, more valuable and desirable to a buyer. Ebay are quite prepared to make their own judgements on what can and cannot be sold, perhaps they need to take their collective fingers out of their a***s and make a judgement call that, perhaps, selling vehicle I.Ds is not the greatest of ideas. To those who are posting up links, don't bother, its a waste of time! Perhaps one of you could create somesort of petition ( yes another one of those... ) hawk it around the car forums and get enough interest to take back to ebay? To be honest, while that is not exactly cutting edge, its probably better to get a mass of people complain that the odd one or three flagging up VINS.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:36:17 GMT
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The fact that coppers are saying a seller could be done for aiding and abetting a criminal when the stolen car is found, should be enough to make people shred V5s and grind vin plates.
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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