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Absolutley, But to say that Japanese cars are better than all other modified cars because they can do 'stance' is a massive generalisation. It's saying unless we copy what the japanese are doing then we'll be getting it wrong. Absolutly, there are loads of different ways to make a car look right, but you have to 'get it' to make it work I think. My car has a nose down stance at the moment, but its not quite right. The thing that certain modifying scenes would do is not stop until it was spot on, thats not just the Japanese scene. I think though that we in the UK can learn about the attention to details, we have the skills, the passion etc. and we turn out some awesome cars... I reckon we could turn out more awesome cars though  If the wheels were any further out they'd catch on the arches which would kinda spoil the driving exerience, And isn't that what cars are about? Depends  ... but of course it would mean he'd have to stretch his tyres more ... Don't get me wrong though I'd love that car as it is ... just if he was going for the pure look perfection then wheels would be out further. Thing is he wants different things from his car. A lot of the stuff we like isn't hugely drivable in every circumstance.... however having been down the Tokyo highway in convoy with some of the extremely lowered cars on extreme stretched styres, they drive them,.. and they drive them hard! |
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Another great debate! ;D I think its dangerous to be using words like right and wrong on here TBH Loads of styles rule! None of mine will have this J lowered look but I do have a future project in mind...  liking the supra but I did really think i'd do it different, I do like it though  |
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 it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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If the wheels were any further out they'd catch on the arches which would kinda spoil the driving exerience, And isn't that what cars are about? Depends ... but of course it would mean he'd have to stretch his tyres more ... Don't get me wrong though I'd love that car as it is ... just if he was going for the pure look perfection then wheels would be out further. Thing is he wants different things from his car. A lot of the stuff we like isn't hugely drivable in every circumstance.... however having been down the Tokyo highway in convoy with some of the extremely lowered cars on extreme stretched styres, they drive them,.. and they drive them hard! Looking at the other photos of the car, I would imagine it's built to go as well as look good. Anyways....... Also having owned a car that scraped the tyres on the arches, i can honestly say the sound of arch/tyre contact is not a pleasant one. and the thought of having large chunks of sidewall removed while driving at speed is even less pleasant. Safety over style? Maybe i'm getting old? |
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 An Example of a 'brit' getting stance all wrong. where's all the camber?  ;D ;D ;D |
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I like the extreme look its err extreme , but do these cars handle anywhere but a smooth track? I steered round some real pits in the road on the way to work, that could of caught me out in normal car or on bike!  what put me off doing this look is the car is effectively bottomed out all the time, and what about excess bearing wear etc? As I said I do like the look but i'm not sure about it |
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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Safety over style? Maybe i'm getting old? I'll get your slippers and Horlicks ... To be fair the absolute slammed J-cars have almost no suspension travel so generally arn't loosing great chunks of tyre... they do things right, not just the look... So these arn't just chopped springs but fully re-done suspension to make it safer ... Of course I don't think the Boso cars would pass an Ncap safety test.. Pedestrian saftey rating -3.14159265 |
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Feb 28, 2007 10:20:52 GMT
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which (to be fair) is more than can be said for some rat rods...
Or even some pro streeters.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Feb 28, 2007 13:41:57 GMT
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Also having owned a car that scraped the tyres on the arches, I can honestly say the sound of arch/tyre contact is not a pleasant one. and the thought of having large chunks of sidewall removed while driving at speed is even less pleasant. Seconded!!! This is why my Sprite no longer wears its Mamba wheels  |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Don's Galleryslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Feb 28, 2007 17:36:54 GMT
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Errrr....? No. A good stance involves the wheels fitting nicely in the arches. Not just as low as possible regardless. No, what you have to understand is theres good looking cars and theres cars that make you wet your pants they are soo cool! All those cars you posted are good looking cars with 'good' stance but they are nothing special! they are conservitive and therefore generally pretty un-interesting. I mean if someone turns up at a show in one of those you would probalby think 'nice car' but no pee would attulay come out! From our perspective J cars are much wilder and less conservitive, they arnt being pussys and trying to fit into the crowd like most people do over here. Imagine driving something like that over here! how differant would it look from all the generic 'hot rods' and stuff we have to put up with! (ask stuyizz!) I think thats the problem, over here people are brought up to fit into the crowd, drive the same cars, wear the same cloths etc. the japanese appear alot more willing to take the risk and do something differant. I see it with loads of aspects of their culture. They have the wildest fashions, entainment and of course cars! Generally we have generic curse word for all 3! Of course from thier perspective they are the crowd and most of them are trying to fit in! but thats irrelivent for us. Human nature i guess. Basicly you take any one of those J cars and build the same thing over here you will be a car building god. Without a doubt have the best car in the country! |
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Feb 28, 2007 17:55:04 GMT
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Errrr....? No. A good stance involves the wheels fitting nicely in the arches. Not just as low as possible regardless. No, what you have to understand is theres good looking cars and theres cars that make you wet your pants they are soo cool! All those cars you posted are good looking cars with 'good' stance but they are nothing special! they are conservitive and therefore generally pretty un-interesting. I mean if someone turns up at a show in one of those you would probalby think 'nice car' but no pee would attulay come out! From our perspective J cars are much wilder and less conservitive, they arnt being pussys and trying to fit into the crowd like most people do over here. Imagine driving something like that over here! how differant would it look from all the generic 'hot rods' and stuff we have to put up with! (ask stuyizz!) I think thats the problem, over here people are brought up to fit into the crowd, drive the same cars, wear the same cloths etc. the japanese appear alot more willing to take the risk and do something differant. I see it with loads of aspects of their culture. They have the wildest fashions, entainment and of course cars! Generally we have generic curse word for all 3! Of course from thier perspective they are the crowd and most of them are trying to fit in! but thats irrelivent for us. Human nature I guess. Basicly you take any one of those J cars and build the same thing over here you will be a car building god. Without a doubt have the best car in the country! The japanese cars you think are wild seem to be pretty commonplace in Japan, Judging by the number of links and photos posted on these boards. Almost like the owners are just following the crowd perhaps? Like Hotwire said this morning, Different countries have different styles. Because you prefer the Japanese style it doesn' mean everything else is wrong. While i'm not really a fan of japanese cars i can appreciate(sp) them as some do look damn cool, However i still don't get the whole 45 degrees of camber business. As for people over here just trying to fit in with 'the crowd' Go and look in the readers rides section, Lots of diversity in there. Such as your metro. ;D Does any of that make sense? and can someone pleeeeeease explain this 'pwn' sh it? |
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Feb 28, 2007 18:02:12 GMT
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I do think you are missing the detail of why we like them so much Slater,.. its not just a car slammed on wide wheels,.. or that it looks different, Australian cars look totally different, Spanish cars look totally different...
The point is the attention to detail, the time taken to getting it to look just right, half an inch higher or lower on either end would break it, slightly different profile of tyres would break it, too much body smoothing would break it, a different window tint would break it... this type of modifying is much more than taking an unloved car and dropping it over a set of wide wheels with stretched rubber,.. the sooner people realise this the better.
Whats more Japan doesn't have the monopoly, the euro scene is still mind blowingly cool. In many ways it is far in advance of the Japanese scene and there is a lot they could learn from the Germans, Dutch and Belgians. Japan isn't the be-all and end all of car modifying, frankly I can get bored of looking at slammed cars on wide 14s, which is the strict rule of their scene.
However,.. they do have a high get it ratio and turn out some lovely lovely lovely cars.
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Feb 28, 2007 18:05:00 GMT
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An Example of a 'brit' getting stance all wrong. where's all the camber? ;D ;D ;D Yeah thats really bad look at the beautiful street rod he ruined to make it as well  < This has a bit of camber though  |
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Don's GalleryDeleted
@Deleted
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Feb 28, 2007 18:08:41 GMT
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I love that Celica on the first page! So PERFECT!!! Anyone know the wheel\tyre\offset specs? And I don't think the camber is that bad on it, looks more "sits like a spider" in turns kinda camber! And stance is damn important when "building" a car, the thing I hate much about Opel folks here, is the bloody "i got saggy rear springs\a dead body in the trunk" stance... I cant in any way understand how they think that look good on any car but a old leadsled... Meh, but its their car  Example of wibblepoo "ass-down" stance, and too big wheels I don't like tuck on this type of car (i like it on VERY few cars infact..)  |
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2007 18:14:07 GMT by Deleted
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Feb 28, 2007 18:27:59 GMT
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The Japanese aren't the be all and end all of car modding and the reality is that a clean, low car will always work - whatever 'look' you assign to it. If you like a style, look at it and learn from it. But you can't slate it until you've understood it. Regarding the whole negative camber/stance arguement. Going really low is a combination of skill and/or sacrifice, often both. If you can't do either then don't - but don't make excuses or judgements. look:  See that round thing on the grass? That's the exhaust box...it was my car and therefore my sacrifice. I could have run it a couple of inches higher and my girlfriend wouldn't have moaned about her boobs hurting every time we went out in it and I could have parked it in the multi storey at the shops instead of parking in the flat car park about 10 minutes away, but then it wouldn't have got a photo in CC...IMO it was a worthwhile decision...I've still got the mag, and the girlfriend is long gone ;D. You can take all your 'the tyres will rub', 'it won't handle', 'what about speed ramps?' rubbish. You're either low or you ain't...but don't make excuses, you've made your own choice.  No airbags, no trailer. This guy smiled all the way back to Tokyo. He made the sacrifices and it paid off, because here we are on the other side of the world talking about his car. Again. |
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2007 18:29:28 GMT by rmad
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Don's Galleryslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Feb 28, 2007 18:37:19 GMT
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All i know is
If i go to an average car show in the UK i see maybe 50 'good' cars but only 1 or 2 curse word awsome cars in every 100
If i look at the euro 'scene' i see about 70 'good' ones and 20 curse word awsome cars in 100
If i look at the J 'scene' i see 5 good ones and 90 curse word awsome ones!
Now as we are in england its bloody obvious that if you want a curse word good car your best bet is J-style! maybe if your in japan the numbers are reversed and you will want a ford pop or something but that dosent matter as we arnt in japan!
I suppose personal preferance comes into it but I'm a strong beliver that there are universaly good and bad ways to build cars. It may not be specific ways like ' alot of camber is curse word' or 'as low as possible is cool' its got more to do with the cars 'hidden meaning' and the tohughts that went into its conception.... things like that..... I relly cant think how to explain it in words.
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Feb 28, 2007 18:49:56 GMT
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without stating the obvious...
if your physically at a show then you will see loads of shockingly bad cars
but if your looking at a gallery of some car show thousands of miles away, then its hardly gonna feature loads of barry boy styled affairs, cos who takes pictures of the bad cars at a show ?
not me
"theres no such thing as style, only styles"
someone important said that
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 SPLIT RIMS ARE FOR WINNERS |
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Don's GalleryDeleted
@Deleted
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Feb 28, 2007 19:14:21 GMT
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"If it was easy to be cool, everyone would be" Some wiseguy said that ;D
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Don's Galleryslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Feb 28, 2007 19:36:58 GMT
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without stating the obvious... if your physically at a show then you will see loads of shockingly bad cars but if your looking at a gallery of some car show thousands of miles away, then its hardly gonna feature loads of barry boy styled affairs, cos who takes pictures of the bad cars at a show ? not me "theres no such thing as style, only styles" someone important said that Thats a good point! I'm just going by the pics Mr wire and Mr mad took on thier little trip! was it relly that good guys? |
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Feb 28, 2007 19:43:04 GMT
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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Feb 28, 2007 20:13:50 GMT
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Now as we are in england its bloody obvious that if you want a blasted good car your best bet is J-style! No it bloody isn't... your best bet is to build a car understanding what makes a car look good (to you) and making sure you follow through with the complete attention to detail and an eye on perfection (that doesn't mean inch thick paint as perfect, but perfecting the 'look' (stance, proportion, colour, detail) that you are going for). My car is a Japanese car,.. but it isn't going to be Japanese style. This car is perfect :  But the reason its perfect is because of the attention to detail... it is NOT just a Kaddett dropped on some good 14" wheels. It is the right wheels, with the right offset and the right profile of tyres, the bodywork is the right colour for the accessories, there are just the right amount of accessories, of the right type. It has been smoothed out to just the right level for the type of wheels and accessories and colour it has, the correct level of chrome trim has been added on, the interior suits the exterior styling. Nothing on this car happened by accident. Weather that was conscious planning or because the builder had the eye to be able to do it naturally is a different matter. Those skills and that attention to detail can be learn't if people are willing to take the time... just aping "J-style" because you believe it to be the new hotness will achieve nothing but create a car that is almost there,... just another averagely good car. Which is fine if you enjoy it,.. but if you are striving to be the best and show the UK scene how good it can be,.. then,.. its not good enough |
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... but of course it would mean he'd have to stretch his tyres more 
