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Feb 11, 2007 19:05:24 GMT
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Read this in a couple of the papers today.
You know all about that petition against the pay-per-mile road tax? well, no doubt you will have seen the emails going round urging people to sign it claiming that the government are proposing a vehicle tracking database incorporated into the pay-per-mile scheme which will automatically send out speeding fines and be able to tell the cops where you were at any point during the day etc.
A Downing Street spokesperson told a news conference late yesterday that these are "ridiculous lies" and that many people were signing the petition under "false pretenses". Therefor the fact that over a million people have signed it is immaterial as its impossible to say how many people are protesting against pay-per-mile and how many are against the idea of a tracking database which is not a government proposal.
So all those signatures can be easily ignored.
And those idiots adding wild unsubstaniated claims about civil liberty infringements just played right into the governments hands. Now it can implement pay-per-mile happily saying there is no proof of public opinion against the scheme....
Moral of the story - if you want to fight government stick to the damn facts on the table not some airy fairy fantasy threats....
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Last Edit: Feb 12, 2007 12:55:23 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Feb 11, 2007 19:10:09 GMT
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Or are the 'lies' just too close to the bone?! Maybe the people just don't trust the govenment. new petition it is then with bold reasons for signing it!   Well theres an excuse. Edit: took my dad ages to add his name yesterday, lot of effort for those not great with computers or typing.  |
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 it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts  |
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Feb 11, 2007 19:11:43 GMT
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thats a convenient way to curse word the nations opinions off though, isnt it.  I'm not paying a damn thing, so they better get my cell ready. and I'm the daddy. ;D |
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Feb 11, 2007 19:20:19 GMT
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curse word hell |
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Feb 11, 2007 19:21:07 GMT
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Or are the 'lies' just too close to the bone?! No, its because no government missive of the subject has ever mentioned any monitoring other than otherwise anonymised usage data. People going off the deep end and reading stuff into it means that the aim has been moved off the target. I'm dubious of the value of petitions. Democracy is not synonymous with referenda on all policy... The smart way to tackle this, and the only way I can see which will have any chance is to wait until there is an official government policy consultation document published, to read it fully to understand the exact implications of what is being propsed and write a response based on the actual proposal. Many government policy consultations (if not all of them) have an online response form off the Open Government website. As there is no formal consultation out I suspect that people interested in defeating this have shot their bolt to early. Now if 1.5 million people undertake the official consultation then they cannot ignore that as its an official internal process. This is what the NSRA have done over the SVA/VIC/re-registration proposals and although thats mired in discussions it is showing some sign of bearing some fruit. Thats what we did when Continuous Licenceing was proposed and that got us the 25 year rolling road tax excemption. You can only win if you play the game. The problem is the government doesn't go out of its way to draw attention to consultation papers, other than to registered interested bodies. If I hear of it, y'all will straight after... |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Feb 11, 2007 19:32:45 GMT
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If you think that the government would categorically NOT use this pay-per-mile technology for tracking folks' movements and pinpointing 'suspected criminals' you must have your head in the clouds! Come off it. They have simply found a clever way to 'ignore' the point of view of 1,000,000 voters. If you waited for an official consultation document about ID cards you would have been reassured to hear that they would of course NOT be compulsory. If you then waited for the goverment to begin implementing them you would be disappointed to find that in fact they ARE compulsory (but only to individuals requesting or renewing a passport). Also only then would you learn that the ID card would store digitised data on folks DNA, iris scans etc etc none of which was given in the consultation document as at that stage, details of actually what info would be on the card had 'not yet been clarified'. |
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Last Edit: Feb 11, 2007 19:33:32 GMT by Mr_Bo11ox
1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT! |
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Feb 11, 2007 19:33:37 GMT
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since when have any government taken any notice of any citizen evAr
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2001 HONDA CT110 (NOT RCV)
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stinkwheel
Posted a lot
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism - One of gods own proptypes, never even considered for mass production.
Posts: 2,280
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Feb 11, 2007 19:39:09 GMT
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I've only one thing to say, if they do try to impliment this one i can imagine something akin to the Poll Tax Riots going off, id take part and id happily refuse to retro-fit any equipment to my 7 cars. So Sod 'em. Who's with me?
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1973 Citroen Dyane 6 1980 Citroen Acadiane
1992 Citroen AX 1990 Citroen BX
1997 Citroen XM 1993 Citroen BX
1997 Citroen Xantia 1977 Citroen Ami 8
1996 Ford Escort 1989 Citroen BX
1997 Suzuki RF900 1988 Yamaha TDR250
1979 Honda CB400.
'I need less vehicles'
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Feb 11, 2007 19:46:32 GMT
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since when have any government taken any notice of any citizen evAr road tax exemption for classic cars, hunting with dogs act, poll tax, land mines, animal testing of cosmetics, loads of stuff. Its about mobilising the right "popular protest" in the right form at the right time. Or in the case of the poll tax open revolt...  |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Feb 11, 2007 19:50:53 GMT
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What about that old chestnut, don't sign something unless you know what it is?! IMO the government have a VERY LOW confidence in its people, if they think people are digitally signing something they don't understand what it is! WORRYING! This thing does impose on our privacy and it does record information about our whereabouts. people are likely to worry. Like TCC Says we're all gonna be in prison, or on the dole. bring it on ignorant leaders! |
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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Feb 11, 2007 19:50:56 GMT
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If you think that the government would categorically NOT use this pay-per-mile technology for tracking folks' movements and pinpointing 'suspected criminals' you must have your head in the clouds! Come off it. I don't believe they have the technology, nor would be ale to implement it. Come on look at their track record with technology projects.... I also don't believe it would stand the scrutiny of the first test case in the European Court if they did manage to pull it off. And the bottom line is that when you are fighting government proposals you have to fight on the basis of their PUBLISHED and STATED proposal not what you suspect they MIGHT do if they get the regulation passed. The minute you delve off into some suposition you're out. Its almost like mounting a prosecution in court. No idea about the ID card thing as I never bothered reading the consultation on it, and have got rather bored with it. I suspect thats the govt's plan on that one. Its getting "media fatigue" and nobody cares anymore. Then they can introduce what ever they like. |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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topi
Posted a lot
It's a race car officer, I swear!
Posts: 1,039
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Feb 11, 2007 20:49:32 GMT
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As stinkwheel said - Nomatter what they decide to do, I will NOT be putting any government boxes into my cars.
I got really annoyed when I saw some jerk-ass guy on the news claiming that it isn't a true reflection on peoples views, and it was just a well organised collection of people. He said that obviously people are more concerned with the NHS and prisons. Well excuuuuse me wise guy, but the NHS and prison system is RIGHT at the back of my mind. I, and pretty much everyone I know use a car daily - thus it is far more important. I know it may seem a stupid thing to say - and I may regret it when I need to have an operation or something (or go to jail...), but it's true!
My stance is that I will refuse to pay, install or go along with any government policy that I dissagree with, until the point where they say "you're going to jail next time son!". Then I'm moving abroad, simple as. I pay extortionate insurance premiums, get ripped off for road tax and petrol, and that's where it ends.
One more point - Have they mentioned anything about motorbikes yet? If worst comes to worse... Turbo R1 with no reg.plates is on the cards.
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Last Edit: Feb 11, 2007 20:52:05 GMT by topi
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Feb 11, 2007 20:52:05 GMT
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If you ask me, I think this pay per mile thing is just an excuse to bring in something else so the public feels like they've won.
e.g. "OK we won't do pay per mile but another 20p tax on petrol instead"
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topi
Posted a lot
It's a race car officer, I swear!
Posts: 1,039
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Feb 11, 2007 20:52:51 GMT
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Hmm good thinking Hirst, could be something like that.
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Feb 11, 2007 21:07:38 GMT
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Listen.
All this talk of 'I'll go to jail' is very noble.
But how will they ACTUALLY implement your punishment for bashing up your black box?
Will they send you to the cells to be given bum love by a big beardy chap? NO THEY WILL NOT.
Will they just hi-ab away and crush your car that you have invested thousands in?
YOU BET YOUR LIFE THEY WILL.
Therefore 99.9% of people will have no choice but to roll over and take it in the ass from the government.
Sucks, but it's true. In the light of this there looks to be squit all that anyone can do about it.
What will you do?
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Feb 11, 2007 21:08:53 GMT
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yeah, maybe.
what is the proposal for bikes? anyone know?
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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Feb 11, 2007 21:25:06 GMT
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Read this in a couple of the papers today. Which papers?? BBC news story with quotes from the transport minister in charge of the scheme seems to have taken it as a legit thing? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6349027.stmBut let us not let facts get in the way of a good tabloid scare story.... assuming we don't all get killed by escaped criminal peadophiles carrying the "deadly" H5N1 bird flu strain. |
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Last Edit: Feb 11, 2007 21:25:46 GMT by HoTWire
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topi
Posted a lot
It's a race car officer, I swear!
Posts: 1,039
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Feb 11, 2007 21:25:33 GMT
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Good point pgweasel, they will hit you where it hurts most. Though I think there's such a massive collective car community in this country, people wont let it happen.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Feb 11, 2007 21:51:29 GMT
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Woah crikey, you're telling me the Internet reaction to the proposed pay-per-mile tax scheme was a bit bucket of overreaction and paranioa - no way.
Glad I didn't waste 30secs of my life adding myself to what is now little more than a list of silver foil hat wearing flaming torch wielding mentals.
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Panda Matt
Part of things
Datsun Owners Club Wannabe
Posts: 734
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Feb 11, 2007 21:51:34 GMT
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Read this in a couple of the papers today. Which papers?? BBC news story with quotes from the transport minister in charge of the scheme seems to have taken it as a legit thing? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6349027.stmBut let us not let facts get in the way of a good tabloid scare story.... assuming we don't all get killed by escaped criminal peadophiles carrying the "deadly" H5N1 bird flu strain. Sometimes I get a warm fuzzy glow about R-R - like now. I've spent an hour in agony with a combination of probably the funniest TG ever (combined with wisdom tooth extraction = hurts to laugh)... ...and then our Glorious Leader wins teh internets in 3 short sentences. Man I love sundays sometimes  |
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