philsford
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Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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From my wiring diagram I have 3 wires going to the coil. The centre one that is black is switched live.
I have tried putting 12v to the spare pats wire and it makes no difference.
So my fuel pump is working and I have 12v at the coil but still it turns over and don't start?
Any more ideas? I feel like weighing it in.
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prab
Part of things
Posts: 248
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Its usually the simplest thing that need checking, check the quality of the HT leads and the plugs,
Prab
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bortaf
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CPS?
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R.I.P photobucket
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rodney
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make sure the loom plugs are pushed in properly in right places , i have that problem , as silly as it sounds,.
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facebook: rodney dean / rd transport  |
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philsford
Part of things
Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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Cheers. I think I will check I have some readings at the crank sensor I may even just get a new sensor as they are only about £20. I will also check all the plugs. I have never known a coil go down so bad that the car wouldn't start but I suppose its possible, I know they don't take much of a knock to break them but I have left it connected to the engine at all times with this in mind.
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ftz313
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Posts: 221
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Hi sounds as if the pats is doing it's thing if the fuel pump is working,
Make sure you also have 12v at all your injectors and the idle control valve on the inlet manifold. Feeding a 12v to the idle valve should 12v all your injector etc as they are all connected.
A cheap way to test the cps is to set a multi meter to AC voltage and crank it over and you should get a flicker of a voltage on the screen.
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philsford
Part of things
Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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I have had a little investigate and have the following readings.
When the ingnition is on:
12v @ coil on the middle wire and the 2 other wires have 1.3v
12v @ the injectors
1.5v @ the crank sensor which goes down to 0.3 when cranking it over on both wires
0.02 @ brown cam sensor wire and goes upto 0.2 when cranking it over
0.04 @ blue cam sensor wire and goes upto 0.2 when cranking it over
So if that gives anyone any pointers I would love to hear hear what you think.
I am thinking of going for a new coil pack and crank sensor just because I have run out of ideas. I have not took a plug out to see if I have a spark but I think I know the result of that test as if I had it would run.
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Smiler
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I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
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Sounds like an earth path might be missing. If you are getting 12v to the coil pack via the black wire then all that is missing for the spark is the earth path through the green wires via the ECU.
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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philsford
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Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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I will have to have another look at the connectors and earths.
I did wonder earlier as I was driving round trying to solve this in my head, I have changed the flywheel so is the smaller flywheel still compatable with my crank sensor? Or do I need one to match the flywheel?
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ftz313
Part of things
Posts: 221
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Hmmm
Years ago I bought a scrapper Escort that had lost the pats keys.
I fed the coil with 12v, fed the injectors with 12v and also fed the fuel pump with a constant 12v but it just would not start. Feeding in all these 12v with a pats doesn't make it start. I then had to push it onto the trailer.
I'm no expert but my understanding is that the pats wires on the transponder thingy goes straight to the ecu. I believe they work at like 5v or something daft so you can't just throw 12volts at the coil, injectors etc.
So I think you're either going to have to sort out the pats wires or get an early non pats ecu an early zetec which will wire up easily like others have said.
Which probably isn't what you want to hear. Sorry.
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philsford
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Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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I see what your saying but I am not feeding the 12v to get the readings above, I have wired it how it came out of the mk5. I have 3 wires unconnected on the pats 2 of which went to light on the dash, I was talking about it to a mate today and he suggested putting an led in there incase the pats knows the circuit aint complete? Only a guess but won't take long to try it. Also I have the other wire that went to the fuse box which is not connected at the min. I have tried it to 12v but makes no difference. It does however join to another wire at the fuse box that goes to the steering wheel controls which we thought must be to power the horn for an alarm.
You may be right that I will end up looking for another ecu but finding a suitable one complete with loom may be easier said than done. I think the first ones came out in 1992 and pats came in 1994 so a small window of them had no pats and my local scrap yards are full of 2000-on stuff and they look at you like your mad when you ask for early 90s stuff.
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ftz313
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Posts: 221
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I feel your pain !
Worth trying that with the pats wires. I think they've all got to be connected to work.
If you do go with the non pats route I believe that the 105ps ecu won't run with the 130 spec injectors. The non pats 130 ecu should run the 130 injectors.
A trick I use is to set a multimeter to AC V and put the terminals across the pins on the crank sensor. When cranking you should get a reading like 0.7v or something but it shows that you are getting a reading. If you are getting this at the crank sensor do the same with the multimeter shoved into the relevant pins on the ecu plug.
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philsford
Part of things
Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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I have checked down the local factors today and the cps is the same fitted to both types of flywheel. To my annoyance I am out of stock of 12v leds so have just ordered one and trying it will have to wait.
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philsford
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Mar 24, 2013 11:52:01 GMT
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No updates = no progress
I tried an led in the thin blue pats wires and connected the spare pats wire to 12v but still the car just turns over and over. The led is on constant weather the key is by the transeponder or not so I guess something is wrong as I would assume it should go out when you put the ignition on and have the key by the reciever?
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philsford
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Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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Mar 24, 2013 12:00:37 GMT
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Also with the weather being bad I thought I would get the brakes sorted so I could get the car in the garage so I can do little bits on an evening etc. First up was rear braided lines  The fronts are cosworth 2wd disc drilled and grooved with st24 calipers and braided lines. Easy coversion you just need to drill the hub mount holes out to 12.5 mm and use a thin washer inbetween the arrier and the hub.  They fill the wheel a treat  Then a pointless pic showing why I want it back in the garage. I had cleaned it off once before this pic.  |
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2013 12:07:34 GMT by philsford
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philsford
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Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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Mar 24, 2013 12:17:24 GMT
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Good job I did get the car inside the way the weather has gone. It is white over again now. I think we have had about 6 inches in total. The patio area was all cleaned off and salted yesterday.  |
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rodney
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Mar 24, 2013 12:24:47 GMT
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try find a early mk5 loom , saves the hassle,.
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facebook: rodney dean / rd transport |
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philsford
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Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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Mar 24, 2013 13:18:51 GMT
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I have been told by an ecu repair company that there is nothing internal in my ecu stopping it working so it can only be a few pin swops to sort it. Problem is which ones need swopping lol.
I think a non pats loom out of an early mk5 xr3i would plug in and it would run.
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2013 13:19:52 GMT by philsford
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rodney
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philsford
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Posts: 733
Club RR Member Number: 100
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Mar 25, 2013 19:06:59 GMT
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Funny you should put that link up, while serching google yesterday I came across wiring diagram on that forum that seems to match my loom unlike the toilet paper in the haynes manual. Now I should be able to work through that and see where my loom is wrong.
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