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Now before you think I've gone mad and started believing the ads on eBay take a look at this: www.boosthead.com/home.phpwith a magazine review here: www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/Now Eaton said that an electric charger wouldn;t work because to spin one of their blowers up to a full pressure bench test took like 50A on a 415V 3 phase supply. This would equate to something like 500A on a 12V supply and no alternator can do that. I am quoting numbers from my random memory here as I can't remember how to work out V=IR and all that... This guy reckons he can burst 200A off a regular 12V (using an Optima yellow top or similar) and trickle charge when you're not at what... current seems reasonable especially since he's only running 8 - 10 lbs boost so far... and don't forget some of these high end / competition audio systems run more than 200A systems... So, while there is definitely the scent of Snake Oil about this product, it can't be dismissed as easily as those PC case fans you buy in eBay... What do we reckon gentlemen?
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2006 9:10:19 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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I'm thinking there are 1700 reasons that it better work!
I'd still prefer to stick to the proper mechanical equivalent.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Thing is if it does work it has a few interesting things to warrant it...
1. non-vehicle specific install, means you buy one and move it from car to car as you trade them, meaning a better return on the investment to buy it.
2. no parasitic losses at all, not even the addditional back pressure you get with a turbo means theorttically greater yeilds and better efficiency than turbo or super charger
3. instant throttle response - no spool up time
4. stealth installs possible.
5. the "oh yeah" factor. Nobody's going to believe you if you have one that it actually works... Assuming it does what it says on thew website you could surprise a few people.
6. No additional noise (when not operating) and very quiet operation means stealth for racing for money situations or on-street Q-car laughs...
7. additional weight is mainly through battery etc. which can be mounted where ever you need for best weight distribution unlike turbos/superchargers where all the wieght goes on the nose of the car...
8. "Apparently" its already lighter than a turbo install and "changes in battery technology will only make it lighter in future" - best way to go fast is to go light...
I'm not trying to sell it, I'm just looking at what the advantages would be if it worked... Which this guys company claim it does...
Draw backs are that at the moment its limited to fairly low power operation (less than 400 BHP) but if its a sound development then in the future there could be higher output versions. Also the much heralded change to 42V systems in vehicles which people keep blathering on about would also help this system...
[/devils advocate]
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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There will be parasitic losses through the alternator though? You cant just generate all that energy from nowhere, it will put extra resistance on the alternator, sucking power in the same way as a supercharger. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
The only advantage I can see is that it can be located anywhere, not on the exhaust manifold or inline with a pulley, you just buy longer wires to move it wherever you want. Again, I may have the wrong end of the stick.
Adam
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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bxer
Part of things
Posts: 457
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Reading the second link, it makes sense... The main problems are getting high power electric motors, and the batteries to drive them... Battery tech has come on vastly in the last few years though. Looks like it'll be more like nitrous for a while though, a short blast of boost rather than continuous. Yes, once you've flattened the batteries, the alternator will be dragging hp while they're recharging. Tried this many years ago with an inverter and a vaccum cleaner set to 'blow' Didn't work
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Yes, if the "e-charger" ran all the time it would load the motor by the alternator. However it only operates at what (when you need the "boost") and while its running it draws its power from the second battery (a deep cycle one such as an Optima) and then it recharges either by you charging it from an external source or by using a split charger off the alternator. The idea is that trickle charging the battery back up when the car is at idle or cruise takes little power and puts a very light load on the alternator.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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One off the major problems is they are very restrictive when they're off.....they just end up losing you power.
Electric chargers are never going to happen!
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Erm, but they have happened? (according to the website and magazine article)
No reason it should be restrictive when off, just bypass it for natural aspiration.
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2006 12:04:56 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Yeah I think electric chargers are gonna happen, I know one major turbo manufacturer who is trying to develop one!
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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It will work, but turning mechanical energy into electrical energy and back into mechanical energy will never be as efficient as using the mechanical energy directly. The resistance in the wires will dissipate energy through heat, as will the electric motor. That would surely be more than the energy dissipated through friction in the belt and the bearings of a supercharger?
I agree that it could be more useful, using a switch would have the same effect as a clutch in supercharger setup, so it could be computer controlled to only give boost under a certain level of load?
Just more questions based on GSCE physics!
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,416
Club RR Member Number: 52
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One off the major problems is they are very restrictive when they're off.....they just end up losing you power. Electric chargers are never going to happen! I think your thinking more of the "electrice Superchargers" that are actually just fans mounted in the air intake which are restrictive and can't spin up enough quick enough to provide enough air. Whereas this actually works on the same principal as a supercharger and can therefore be bypassed during the time its not running........ I think!
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But for all that trouble getting and electric charger and battery charging system that works,wouldn't it be better/cheaper/more reliable to fit a conventional charger? I think so.
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Installing the electrics would be no more bother than installing the basics of a decent audio system. The kit price is a grand, plus shipping and VAT etc.. How much is a new supercharger kit for your car?
I'm not rushing out to buy one, I'd rather have a "proper" supercharger like an Procharger, but the "kit" for my car is $4750 + shipping, +VAT etc. and its not a guaranteed fit without "user modifications".
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I'm all for advancements in technology, and if it works then great, but unless its uber efficient, I can't see it taking off any time soon (pun)
Seriously though, wouldn't a healthy dose of nitrous be more appropriate?
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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Does this have some kind of boost regulation? How does it know how fast to spin in comparison to the engine?
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It will work, but turning mechanical energy into electrical energy and back into mechanical energy will never be as efficient as using the mechanical energy directly. The resistance in the wires will dissipate energy through heat, as will the electric motor. That would surely be more than the energy dissipated through friction in the belt and the bearings of a supercharger? I agree that it could be more useful, using a switch would have the same effect as a clutch in supercharger setup, so it could be computer controlled to only give boost under a certain level of load? Just more questions based on GSCE physics! I think the one fundamental difference is that while both systems will inevitable use some power from the engine to drive them, the electric system has the ability to store the power so when it's boosting there's no power being robbed from the engine. A conventional blower will be robbing power whilst trying to generate it. An electric system will draw the power it needs at a time when you are not requiring boost. As most street cars are not on boost for long ever, it seems like a good system. It would be particularly interesting to see this system working in a petrol/electric hybrid. Such a car already has the batteries and the current carrying capacity to deliver the neccesary current. It could have the best of both worlds... economy and low emmisions but still have power when you want it.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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tux
Part of things
Fat Bloke
Posts: 417
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One of the guys at my 924 club fitted one to his 2 litre n/a. After many Hoover/Kirby stylee jokes he has revealed that it was in fact a complete waste of time and money. Basically it makes a nice noise but is otherwise relatively useless, making very close to no imrpovement in performance. He says with hindsight that he really shouldn't have bothered. Thats just one experience mind.........
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I think the one fundamental difference is that while both systems will inevitable use some power from the engine to drive them, the electric system has the ability to store the power so when it's boosting there's no power being robbed from the engine. A conventional blower will be robbing power whilst trying to generate it. An electric system will draw the power it needs at a time when you are not requiring boost. As most street cars are not on boost for long ever, it seems like a good system. Yeh I was thinking about that. It sucks power when you don't need it and spits it out when you do!
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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Mr Limp as far as I can tell form the site there the boost is controlled by how much current you give it. As for regulation - the blower turns at the same rate regardless so boost is contstant to what you set it to. Or I believe thats the theory... Its independant of throttle position or RPM. Interesting that they have blown up their demo car's engine though LOL. tux - was it one of the fan type things he used or was it a Knight Turbo's electrically drive supercharger that he used? Just theying to check down exactly what he had is all as there are many of these on the market and this is the only one that seems to have any hope of working....
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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