chevazon
Posted a lot
1939 Chevrolet 2 door coupe, `67 `Zon estate, `87 Ragtop Cavalier, 4 x 800 Drifters,(!) 1500 Drifter
Posts: 2,259
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I think this was in the news recently but just read it on another site. No retro content but very relevant -
"AN INCREASING number of insurance companies are refusing to insure drivers who have been caught using a mobile phone at the wheel.
According to an AA survey of eight major insurers, half of them would not quote anyone who has been given three points for the CU80 offence, while the other half would raise their premium by 20%.
Spokesman Ian Crowder said: ‘Insurers are taking mobile phone offences very seriously. Their opinion is a motorist might break a 30mph speed limit without noticing but no one sends a text message, email or makes a phone call behind the wheel by accident.
‘It might seem severe but when operating a mobile phone you don’t have both hands on the steering wheel, you aren’t looking fully at the road and can’t change gears safely.’
More than 170,000 motorists a year in England and Wales are caught using their phones while driving.
Car insurers are refusing to cover motorists caught using a mobile phone at the wheel – even first-time offenders.
Auto Express magazine has found that some insurers will increase policy prices for offenders even more. A spokesman for Adrian Flux said: “Rises would vary from insurer to insurer, but could be anywhere from 15 per cent to 50 per cent or even a refusal.”
This tough stance extends to other offences, too. The table (below) spells out the AA’s findings, and as you can see, even a minor speeding violation – an SP30 – will send premiums soaring.
Seven of the eight cover providers contacted by the AA admitted that would be enough for a premium rise, and one wouldn’t even offer a quote.
Research suggests that premium hikes for speeders can be far higher than even the 9.3 per cent quoted by the AA.
A spokesman for LV said: “Typically, if a new customer had a speeding conviction in the last year, then their premium could rise by 10-20 per cent.”
The news will surprise many drivers, as traditionally insurers have opted not to penalise those with three points on their licence. A similar AA survey in 2009 found that 50 per cent of insurers would overlook a minor speeding offence.
When companies where asked why motorists’ premiums are now being hiked for this. An AA spokeswoman explained: “When speed cameras were first introduced, everyone was getting caught and insurers took a more lenient view, but now motorists are used to cameras, insurers won’t ignore three points.”
Direct Line said it was down to stats, with a spokesman adding: “Drivers with motoring convictions are 40 per cent more likely to claim than those with no convictions.”
An Association of British Insurers (ABI) spokesman said providers were hardening their view. “With the rising costs of claims, insurers hike premiums even in response to a motorist’s first three points,” he explained.
When asked why motorists caught using their phone at the wheel were penalised more harshly than speeders, even though three points are dished out for both offences. An AA spokesman said: “Anecdotal evidence suggests motorists caught using a mobile are twice as likely to make a claim than with other offences.”
Simon Douglas, director of AA Insurance, added: “Using a mobile phone while driving is a deliberate act. Many drivers may accidentally drift over a 30mph limit without realising. But no one accidentally makes or answers a call or text.”
How convicted drivers are being hit in pocket
The AA obtained quotes from eight unnamed insurers on its panel to see the effect of different offences on premiums. It based the figures on a 40-year-old man driving a Ford Mondeo.
Offence assumptions:
SP30 (speeding) – three points and £60 fine
CU80 (handheld phone) – three points and £60 fine
CD10 (careless driving) – six points and £100 fine
Insurer Clean 1 x SP30 (3pts) 2 x SP30 (6pts) 1 x CU80 (3pts) 1 x CD10 (6pts) A £298.15 £332.73 No quote No quote No quote B £312.79 £344.07 No quote No quote No quote C £331.33 £366.2 £398.92 £376.72 £423.44 D £378.2 £395.98 £509.06 £499.22 £504.52 E £391.5 £441.22 £491.33 No quote No quote F £491.28 £508.63 £532.55 £563.99 £588.55 G £434.17 £466.73 £494.95 £495.39 £505.81 H £434.44 No quote No quote No quote No quote Avg increase 9.3% 23.6% 18.5% 24.4%
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That's interesting that because I got a CU80 conviction (yes I know it was stupid... ) when they were first introduced in 2008. When I told my insurer (bearing in mind I was 18 with no NCB) it didn't make a difference. Since then its only been about a £100 difference. Having said that, I think if you are stupid enough to use your phone whilst driving then even holding a license needs to be brought into question.
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May 15, 2012 10:00:36 GMT
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Thanks for posting all that, it was an interesting read. But how can they square "Many drivers may accidentally drift over a 30mph limit without realising" with "now motorists are used to cameras, insurers won't ignore three points"? That sounds like an admission they're out to grab your cash any way they can. Is insurance loading being dictated by some central bureau or are these people just speaking for their own organisations? I hope the Mondeo in question was one like this
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EmDee
Club Retro Rides Member
Committer of Autrocities.
Posts: 5,932
Club RR Member Number: 108
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Insurance - no texting !EmDee
@emdee
Club Retro Rides Member 108
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May 15, 2012 10:29:41 GMT
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I think if you are stupid enough to use your phone whilst driving then even holding a license needs to be brought into question. ^ that's a bit harsh, now I'm not saying that I use mine while driving, in fact I don't and I hold quite a stern view on it BUT I think that I could answer a call without causing any danger - for example if I was driving an automatic on an empty motorway using hands free. Losing your license for that would be very harsh. People are too health and safety focused these days, we need to live a little and stop fretting about stupid what ifs. On another note, insurance comapanies need to be regulated more in my opinion, they just make thier prices up. I rang my insurer about a renewal and they gave me their "best price" After 30 minutes on the phone that "best price" had tumbled by over 20% for EXACTLY the same policy but with a LOWER excess! That - in my opinion - is completely fraudulent.
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May 15, 2012 10:54:36 GMT
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"best price" is always a negotiation isn't it though? Whenever you buy anything you usually haggle a bit. OK, not in Morrisons over the groceries but buying a car or a TV or a holiday or paying a builder.
According to research (I forget who but it was someone credible) the "impairment to driving" of talking on a phone is the same as being 3x the drink drive limit for the average male driver. There is little noticeable difference with hands free or hand held.
No idea what the "impairment" due to texting would be...
So I can understand insurers wanting to take a stern line against it by not insuring people who do it.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 15, 2012 11:02:55 GMT
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Also, I forget the exact numbers, but the official ABI report for last year showed that once again the Personal Injury industry had managed to screw more money out of insurance companies in claims than the companies had taken in premiums. The overage was like 20 or 30% as well.
Insurance will keep going up and insurers will be looking for more inventive ways to get more money out of people and pay less out while this continues.
And for this you cannot blame them.
For being deceitful shoddy tossers with poor customer service you can, and thats' why I avoid the "big names" and deal with proper insurance specialists.
EDIT: I was replying to a post which seems to have disappeared.
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Last Edit: May 15, 2012 11:03:32 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 15, 2012 13:33:03 GMT
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I think if you are stupid enough to use your phone whilst driving then even holding a license needs to be brought into question. ^ that's a bit harsh, now I'm not saying that I use mine while driving, in fact I don't and I hold quite a stern view on it BUT I think that I could answer a call without causing any danger - for example if I was driving an automatic on an empty motorway using hands free. Losing your license for that would be very harsh. People are too health and safety focused these days, we need to live a little and stop fretting about stupid what ifs. On another note, insurance comapanies need to be regulated more in my opinion, they just make thier prices up. I rang my insurer about a renewal and they gave me their "best price" After 30 minutes on the phone that "best price" had tumbled by over 20% for EXACTLY the same policy but with a LOWER excess! That - in my opinion - is completely fraudulent. I totally agree that insurance companies need to be shown some regulation. How can you make it a mandatory requirement and then not regular how much these profit making organisations charge? When was the last time an insurance company went bust...?!! But I still feel that driving whilst on the phone is a serious matter. Piloting a car is a serious responsibility and the potential to cause death or serious injury is high. A hands free kit is okay because you're just chatting as you would to a passenger, but even so, whats so urgent in your life that you can't afford to pull over for 5 minutes, stretch your legs and have your phone conversation outside of the car and waking your senses up in the process? I don't think however that must perpetrators are aware of the hazard they're causing. I live in the country and get really annoyed by people that'll do 45mph in a NSL and continue to do 45mph through a village. I don't doubt that they'd be very sad if they killed a child but they seem to think that either that'd never happen to me, or my car is modern and therefore stops quickly. And where it really gets to me, is that if I want to do 130mph down an empty dual carriageway at 3am I face a driving ban and the majority of these drivers get away scot free. I'll stop moaning now. FYI I've escaped any subsequent conviction since 2008
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May 15, 2012 13:39:28 GMT
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Yep, the insurers are not 100% to blame on this and while it might seem shocking raising premiums so far for what some would consider minor offences, they've got to cover the cost of ambulance chasers somehow.
The big names do share information, as I found out when renewing my Polo policy. Some insurers just needed my name and car details and they could find out any previous quotes I'd got from any other company. So whenever you make a change, or get a quote, or provide details like phone convictions, there's a good chance all the companies you call will already have that information.
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May 15, 2012 14:02:43 GMT
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Not that we live in a State Controlled world though...
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May 15, 2012 14:08:39 GMT
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i got a cu80 a few months back and it boosted my premium up on the daily by 200 quid for the year .
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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May 15, 2012 14:58:57 GMT
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I don't wanna get into a conversation about insurance companies and quotes, but I do agree that people should suffer the consequences of there actions and if that means not getting a quote for this sort of offence then so be it. My parked Corsa got side swipped the weekend by one of my neighbours visitors as he tried to reverse his car while on the phone. Then, thinking that no one had seen him, drove off. He did come back to give me his details, once I told my neighbour what had happend. (And I had seen him do it). I dread to think what would have happened if my kid had been playing out on her bike, like she was only minutes before.
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Last Edit: May 15, 2012 15:00:58 GMT by Porsche
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May 15, 2012 15:30:06 GMT
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Good, texting while driving is dangerous dring.
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I've got Rovers.
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May 15, 2012 15:44:12 GMT
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It also made no difference to my premium back in 2009 when I got caught by a speed cop of national fame from the bbc1 traffic cops program (name escapes me). It was a "fair cop guv" and I held my hands up to it straightaway. One thing I will say though is that I don't do it now,I just shove the headphones/handsfree in the iPhone and it works just as well although realistically I see at least 4-5 people a day doing it,usually stupid teenage cuties or range rover drivers are the worst offenders. More frightening to me is the amount of lorry drivers who do it.I regularly drive up the spine of the country from Swansea to Aberdeen and I'll see at least 2-3 on ant journey doing it which is madness when you see what damage they can do. I'm not adverse to heavier penalties etc but insurance co's are getting a bit silly now with trying to claw back money from decent folk for premiums. Don't believe the hype this is all caused from personal injury claims etc,a lot of these companies are simply cashing in. From my experience in the motor trade insurance companies are the worst people to deal with in any way shape or form so I have little or no sympathy for them,they've brought most of these problems on themselves as the industry over the years has been so badly regulated when ANPR etc came into force the industry had to tighten their belts and close up all the loopholes they've been exploiting over the years. Remember the likes of performance direct years ago?it used to take 6 months to get an insurance cert,each month you just got a fresh covernote,printed off a pc.don't tell me for one minute you were actually insured until you had a crash/made a claim,the bit of paper was good enough to produce etc so I'm convinced you were only "covered" by letter for the first month and after that the paperwork wasn't processed unless a claim was made.how would you know?
There are loopholes in the current set up and it will be hard to plug them but it will happen eventually.
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May 15, 2012 15:51:04 GMT
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I'm bloody sure that people wait till I start driving to ring me!
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May 15, 2012 17:50:39 GMT
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There is no difference between speaking on a phone or talking to passengers. You don't have 100% concentration on driving. Even hands free with auto answering which I had back in 98 isn't the answer. Over here they are cracking down on it but you wouldn't believe that it wasn't a requirement of the driving test ! It doesn't affect premiums as most companies only ask if you have a licence !
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Todos con Lorca
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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May 15, 2012 18:29:37 GMT
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That's interesting that because I got a CU80 conviction (yes I know it was stupid... ) when they were first introduced in 2008. When I told my insurer (bearing in mind I was 18 with no NCB) it didn't make a difference. Since then its only been about a £100 difference. Having said that, I think if you are stupid enough to use your phone whilst driving then even holding a license needs to be brought into question. what plums! the simple fact is some drivers have the spare capacity to use a phone and still be able to drive perfectly safely, I use my CB whilst driving whats the differance ? appart from the fact to use a CB is leagal and a phone is not. I spent 7 years mini cabbing using a hand held mic no accidents, I spent the same talking on a phone whilst driving disabled minibusses, recovery trucks and all manor of vehicals with out an accident (before it was illeagal) just cos it suddenly becomes illeagal you assume i'm suddenly going to plow into a bus stop full of kitten carrying nuns ? The laws have to be brought in to to take into account the lowest skill level, for fook sake I know peple who have been driving 20 years and still cant turn the sterio up without changing lanes! they are who the law was bought in for. It never ceases to amaze me how something can get so blown out of proportion it's allmost like using a phone whilst driving is worse tham murder the way some people go on about it and then some news artical comes out and stirs the sheep up and they start bleating on about how deadly it can be bla bla bla. No I havn't been done for it cos i'm clever enough not get caught
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Last Edit: May 15, 2012 18:36:24 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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May 15, 2012 18:52:25 GMT
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I don't think talking on the phone is the issue, it's the not looking at the road while you are pressing buttons.
No matter how much of a smarty pants super amazing driver you are, if you aren't looking where you are going, it is only luck that is preventing an accident.
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I've got Rovers.
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,789
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May 15, 2012 19:15:23 GMT
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I can see this heading in a bad way, but I'll just add this.....
When I'm driving the Merc, I must admit I'm guilty of occasionally answering a call, IF I'm on a straight dual carrageway/motorway or similar.
When I'm out in the Vitesse, the phone goes in the glove box. Period!! That car demands more driver input, and that, as with most modern car accidents, is where things differ.
I know if I'm using all my brain capacity (I hope to god I'm actually no where near it tbh) whilst driving. The laws, as usual, are aimed at those that should've fallen off the earth already but somehow escaped the 'Natural selection' process
Texting however, is a different ball game and should be frowned upon
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Last Edit: May 15, 2012 19:17:12 GMT by MrSpeedy
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chevazon
Posted a lot
1939 Chevrolet 2 door coupe, `67 `Zon estate, `87 Ragtop Cavalier, 4 x 800 Drifters,(!) 1500 Drifter
Posts: 2,259
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May 15, 2012 21:43:17 GMT
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If it is unlawful to use a mobile phone whilst driving then don`t do it - simple. I can tell when following a driver when they are on a phone as they are all over the road. It annoys me as their actions are putting other people in danger. I recall this incident as I knew the victims daughter quite well - www.northumbria.police.uk/news_and_events/media_centre/news_releases/details.asp?id=7123I know I started this thread to point out what the possible consequences were if you were caught but some folk just do not get the point so mods please lock !
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I don't think it's unreasonable or opportunist of insurance companies to charge more for drivers with convictions. If the premiums are based a weighted calculations and each can value the risk of insuring each driver individually.
As someone who recently received a CU80, I was pretty peeved as I was rolling to a stop outside a pub at closing times where my mate was leaving. Quickly lifted the phone to my ear to notify him I'm outside and a cop drives the other way and doesn't see my side of it. His prerogative really.
On the flip side, it was something I did more than occasionally and the reality of being caught has warned me away from that kind of action, despite the fact I will maintain I was not enhancing the risk of an accident on that occasion.
Texting, especially with touch screen smart phones is risky though, as a young technophile with moderate driving ability, I can't say its something I can perform safely but fortunately for me, I'm not known for texting back at the best of times!
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'88 Toyota Supra Turbo
'88 Honda VFR 400 NC24
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