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Apr 20, 2012 21:12:25 GMT
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I'm well aware of the school of thought that lead additives aren't really necessary due to 'lead memory' and the fact that it could take thousands of miles before I suffer from valve seat recession but I'm picking a car up tomorrow that is designed to run on leaded and I'd rather take the preventative measure of using an additive.
I grabbed a bottle of Redex lead replacement additive (RDX18) from a local petrol station when filling the Passat this morning and a quick Google suggests it's a fairly well respected product, though I'm dubious of reviews of products that you only benefit from by using over long periods of time.
EDIT: I note that it is quite specific about NOT being an octane booster. I don't know what octane the recommended fuel in a 948cc Standard is/was, though I would assume that the ignition timing will be set to make best of modern fuels.
I'm trying to figure out which product is the best to go for. Anyone have any specific recommendations, or should I just use whatever is available at the petrol stations and stop worrying about it?
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Last Edit: Apr 20, 2012 21:17:53 GMT by ben711200
...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 20, 2012 21:23:23 GMT
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I used the Castrol product (I can't recall what it was called - Valvemaster maybe?) on my Allegro 1275 A series as I used it a lot on motorways at high RPM, which is exactly the sort of driving that will use up your lead memory within a few thousand miles.
I chose it because it was amongst the best of the products tested by the federation of historic vehicles. I suggest you look up the results of what products passed their tests and go from there if you want 100% peace of mind.
However, If your Passat has an alloy head, then it will have hardened inserts anyway which are generally accepted (by most but not all) to be OK for unleaded. So you know what? Save your money. In the unlikely event seat recession becomes a problem then get it professionally sorted with hardened inserts then.
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Apr 20, 2012 21:28:07 GMT
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Sorry, I was perhaps a little unclear. My Passat is an unnecessary addition to the story and is a diesel. I'm looking for a car I'm about to buy  Thank you. I will look up that test and read up on the Castrol one. Valvemaster does sound familar. |
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
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Apr 20, 2012 21:57:52 GMT
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If you do the sums it might be cheaper to get hardened valve seats fitted than keep buying additives. |
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 20, 2012 22:08:13 GMT
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Tru dat, however you're talking about a large investment in one go to get the work done (got to be more than the £200 I paid for a 4 cylinder Viva head 10 years ago now right?) Plus the cost of a gasket set, not to mention any fluids such as coolant and of course time. Then if the head needs to come off in future you can get it done then.
I would think the man is considering additives even if the car is to be used a fair bit because of these reasons - I know I did. :-)
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Apr 20, 2012 22:16:49 GMT
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Did more than 20,000 miles (many of those driven quite hard) with my Vitesse on 95 unleaded, with no additives and no seat recession. Head was eventually rebuilt for other reasons and now has inserts as once old seats are re-cut or even reground then recession does become more likely, even inevitable as lead memory/work-hardening is lost.
Would be inclined to just leave it be and drive it until (if ever) you find you keep needing to adjust the exhaust valve tappet clearances. Then get inserts. Doubt you'll be needing octane booster - the Standard 948 doesn't have a high CR! You may also find you want to upgrade to one of the bigger engines - 948 is pretty slow......
Nick
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Last Edit: Apr 20, 2012 22:19:18 GMT by vitesseefi
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Apr 20, 2012 23:55:05 GMT
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Personally, I'd suggest running with the additive: in traditional old-British-car style the Standard will be underpowered and low geared. As such, I suspect that the engine will be working quite hard even to keep up with A-road traffic. I don't know how many miles it'll see, but it's nice to be able to use a car without worrying about the effects of those miles too much.
I will observe that the Fiesta was starting to suffer valve seat issues - although that was doing lots of miles, and has covered a lot of miles in total.
Castrol Valvemaster seems to be the most commonly used amongst the classic owners that I know. It's what my Dad uses in his MGB, is available at Halfords. In common with the Redex, 1x 250ml bottle treats 250L of fuel - but the Valvemaster bottle includes a handy measuring dispenser so you don't have to guess how much to put in.
I understand that the general recomendation is to run a tank of straight unleaded through if switching between additive technologies - how necessary that is I'm not sure.
BTW: If it had an ally head I'd probably tell you not to bother and to wait until you had problems - most seem to cope with unleaded rather better than iron heads.
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Apr 21, 2012 10:52:23 GMT
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Seeing as you want to use it and have already bought a bottle I see no reason why not.
However - 20 odd years of running all sorts of mostly iron headed ancient tat on unleaded without additive (including hard use, motorways, towing, odd bit of RWYB...) do you know how many times I've suffered valve seat regression? None.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Apr 21, 2012 13:43:08 GMT
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isnt the valve seat regression relative to the width of the valve seat anyway. If its a bog standard engine, its likely to have wider valve seats than a high performance engine cut with multiple angle valve seats.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Apr 21, 2012 21:40:47 GMT
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I think it depends of what you do with it TBH, had many a hard worked (long miles and constant high speed) pinto and V6 suffer VSR and then some that havn't (round town use low speed), i meen i had 3 heads on one transit pinto but it was doing 10K a year and non lasted more than 10K except the last unleaded head that i still own 40K later, where as another pinto in a P100 did 15K no problems but took 4 years to do it and it's dtill going stronge with a new owner (4 years) but in a car that does uunder 3k a year. I can only really speak for pintos TBH as thats what i know/run/work on ect so doesn't really help at all  |
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R.I.P photobucket
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Find out which additive is already used in it if any and stick with it. Personally I use the redex in mine and after 6k miles its showing no signs of reccesion.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,791 
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I've always been a 'fan' of Castrol Valvemaster Plus. That's all I'm using in the new engine in my Vitesse, so I'll see how it goes. The old engine had done about 10k in 5 years in my ownership with the same stuff, and none for the last year, and showed no sign of VSR, but it was an old engine so had a lot of 'memory'. I wasn't gentle with it either  It's only about £11 for enough to treat 250 ltrs so it's really not that expensive. |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,543
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Once leaded was phased out we didn't bother with any of the Heralds engines and never suffered from VSR in them. Its one of those thing you can keep an eye on, and if you find its occuring, readjust the gaps, keep driving and perhaps sort out a spare head that could then be swapped over in a couple of hours.
You should certainly not need any sort of octane booster. High Comp single carb 948 Herald was 8:1, Standard could have been even lower than this. I think 'pool' petrol was still all you could get when the Standards were first produced.
Personal experience of an engine susceptable to VSR (a B series) shows that even using Castrol Valvemaster did not prevent it occurring. Maybe I just had a soft head.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Apr 22, 2012 10:39:01 GMT
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Thanks to all for the comments and advice Looks like if I am to use it, Castrol Valvemaster is the one to look out for but I won't worry too much if I'm caught short. My planned mileage will be low (2-3k a year), so I can either look at it as it costing only a couple bottles a year at most for piece of mind or that I will be doing low enough mileage that I can keep an eye and keep on top of it if I do start to suffer. I'll have a think while I use up the bottle I already have. It's certainly doing no harm. |
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
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Apr 23, 2012 18:21:49 GMT
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Everyone I know who runs cars with non hardened valve seat just throws through a few litres of AvGas every tank or so. Find your local flying club/airfield and go fill up some jerry cans |
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1994 Rover Metro
1994 Peugeot 405 Estate
1991 Rover Metro Gti 16v
2001 Fiat Seicento Sporting
1999 Fiat Punto 1.2
1994 Peugeot 106 Xnd (x3)
1991 Westfield 7
2004 Landrover 110 SW
2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9Tdi Sport
1959 Ford 107e Prefect
1992 Suzuki Vitara
2008 Skoda Fabia
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May 10, 2012 13:28:01 GMT
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Just a thought, but does anyone know what the active ingredients are in these additives? If you're only doing a few k miles per year isn't there a good chance the petrol will be sitting in the tank for quite a while? If so if any of the ingredients are volatile aren't they likely to evaporate off leaving you without any protection anyway?
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May 10, 2012 15:41:40 GMT
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AFAIK it's only necessary on freshly rebuilt heads. The metal is relatively soft. On an engine with 50,000 miles on it the valves have hit the seats like little hammers millions of times. This work hardening is like forging. Makes the valve seat hard...
On a rebuilt motor you should have them done with inserts - adds like £6 a valve IIRC, you only need to to the exhausts.
I don't run any additives and never have except in my Tover which needed an octane booster. And I never found one I liked which worked 100% on that either.
I think it's a waste of money
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 864
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May 10, 2012 17:36:11 GMT
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I use the Castrol one in the Marina. It's one of those things that you can't prove it works, because nothing happens until you stop using it (and then only maybe). With the mileage you'll be doing it won't cost you a lot really so personally I'd use it... of course, with the mileage you'll be doing it'll take forever and a day to happen if indeed it ever does.
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May 10, 2012 18:16:46 GMT
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I use the Castrol one in the Marina. It's one of those things that you can't prove it works, because nothing happens until you stop using it (and then only maybe). With the mileage you'll be doing it won't cost you a lot really so personally I'd use it... of course, with the mileage you'll be doing it'll take forever and a day to happen if indeed it ever does. That's the conclusion I've now come to. The worst that happens is I waste £15 a year for my piece of mind. It's cheap insurance |
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring. |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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