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Sept 10, 2004 11:35:37 GMT
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Whats all this about Sunbeam Stiletto's being ugly? I love 'em, I prefer thier styling over the Imp. They look more sporty and agressive. The Imp is an everyday family car, and it looks like one. The Stiletto was intended to be a little racier and fun than the Imp, and it's styling reflects that. The Stiletto was the quad headlamp, fastback one wasn't it? I think they are great, and by far the best looking Imps / Imp variants
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Sept 10, 2004 12:03:27 GMT
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ugly=edsel.... ugly=most fiats(modern) in fact most modern cars are ugly,....looks like they tried the clay models in the wind tunnel before theyd dried!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------- Owning a trans am is a sin, according to the pope.
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Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Sept 10, 2004 12:29:07 GMT
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I think that modern cars have substituted "styling" for "design"
Examples: The 205 was a design. It's shape solved various production and packaging problems in a creative and aesthetic way, resulting in acar with character that delivered a solution into the market.
The 206 takes the same solution and adds glittered lights and twinkly chrome.
The mini is perhaps one of the best designed cars ever (I actually hate the looks but thats just me). The new Mini is perhaps one of the best styled cars ever ( I still hate the looks).
Ditto Beetle - original designed, replacement styled.
Original Passat - designed (in a minimal way), current one nose job, fancy lights, same design solution.
Golf 1 - styled Golf V - designed.
i could go on...
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Last Edit: Sept 10, 2004 12:30:01 GMT by Shortcut
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Rob
Posted a lot
You know, for kids!
Posts: 2,515
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Sept 10, 2004 18:58:57 GMT
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WELL... EXCUSE ME !!!! thanks guys for sticking up for the marina! i think its a stunner... a little overweight but a stunner... I'm thinking that a nice side stripe might slim it down a little...? it has mudflaps & bullet mirrors now... i think the mud flaps are proving a little too drag unducing for the a-series tho.. !! I'm talks with a couple of people to lay the car up & fir myself a revvy japanese number under the bonnet... ill have to find routes to places that don't involve corners...!
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Sept 10, 2004 19:39:06 GMT
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In all honesty I can't think of any classic car that is truly ugly, some were just made for a purpose, and that purpose wasn't often looks, which is why a Volvo 740 or series 1 Land Rover isn't particularly pretty, but they're not ugly. And I don't think Stilettos are ugly, I just happen to prefer the saloon style, and it's no less sporty, most race/rally Imps were saloons, to me it's better proportioned in my opinion, and I like the opening back window. I use my cars for everything, from going to Tescos to going to Knockhill racetrack, so maybe my take on a modified car isn't as extreme as some of yours, but they do what I want of them, so the opening back window helps when I do need to carry things, a pure race car would be cool, but I'd get sick of it being unable to carry stuff and would need to run two cars on the road, which at this time I don't have the money to do, so the practical but tunable Imp saloon stays!
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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The Ugliest Cars In BritainBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Sept 10, 2004 20:03:57 GMT
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That shot of the Stiletto shows it at a really nice angle, and if I'd never seen one before, I'd never say that it was ugly! It's just from a few angles (rear 3/4 frinstance) it just seems a bit...odd.... The Mercedes W115 I have was, at the time of it's launch considered to be bland and dull by the press but it became the best selling Mercedes car of it's time. Personally I love the way it looks, and in modern traffic stands out a mile! The Ford Sierra was slammed at it's launch by the press for it's "jelly-mould" styling, but the public accepted it. Same can't be said for the last Ford Scorpio - got slated and is still unloved by most people! 104ZS - you speak a lot of sense! Modern cars are just styling exercises on a handful of chassis. Tragic really.
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Sept 10, 2004 20:37:16 GMT
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It's true, badge engineering and platform sharing is in no way a new thing, but it's getting out of control now! Give it a few years and everything a company makes will be on the same platform. Merc limos will be lengthened Smart cars, the next Bentley will have the same engine/drivetrain as the VW Lupo, and Volvo will be rebadging Ford Kas!! ;D ;D
And I'm not joking either I'm reading from the companies' websites!! ;D ;D
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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SkoCan
Posted a lot
Quando omni flunkus, mortati
Posts: 1,916
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Sept 10, 2004 21:59:04 GMT
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Saw a TV ad for the new Saab 4wheel drive hot hatch. You know the one based on the Subaru mechanicals. I thought it WAS one. Just the nose treatment is different. Lazy sods!
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Last Edit: Sept 10, 2004 21:59:55 GMT by SkoCan
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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The Ugliest Cars In BritainDavenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
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Sept 10, 2004 23:13:19 GMT
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What's wrong with the mini's styling? It's not just well designed, it's well styled too, those curves, the pert rump and that cheeky grin, how can you not like it.
As for the Stiletto, people are used to the Imp with it's (far too high in my opinion) roof line, which is why the lower line ofthe Stiletto looks odd.
As for badge engineering, the mini first came about in guises, austin and morris, same car different badge. The wolsley hornet and riley elf were the same deal, just a different dash and badges.
An old trick, but people still get sucked in by it
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The Ugliest Cars In BritainBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Sept 11, 2004 0:17:07 GMT
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I love the Mini - I especially like the Clubman styling... I think they were brave to tackle a restyle on the most famous car in the world!! It is probably due to familiarity that I find the Stiletto odd...
Yeah BL are the worlds finest badge engineers! Ahead of their time for that at least. The way things are going we might as well be under a Communist regime with one car maker and one style of car - there isn't any choice these days! Still, if people buy them then they get what they deserve don't they?!
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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The Ugliest Cars In BritainDavenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
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Sept 11, 2004 0:29:35 GMT
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A fan of the poor old clubman! I salute you sir ;D As a 1275 GT owner, it'd be rude not to. I think the clubby looks more aggressive, although I do love the classic shape, must get myself a Mk1 one day. The guy whodesigned the clubby front end was the same guy who designed the Mk2 cortina, spot the similarities? I aggree that modern cars are pretty much the same. Bland euro boxes with no character. The only things that standout are retro styled toss like the BMW mini and the new beetle, and even they can't get it right. BMW mini-massive, they should have called it a maxi, the build quality is pretty much the same. Beetle-front wheel drive and water cooled. Pansy car, even has a bloody flower vase in the dash board, ever seen a bloke driving a new beetle? I haven't! If only the beetle and mini had stood up to the modern safety standards, I think they'd still be in production. As the saying goes, they don't make them like they used to
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Sept 11, 2004 12:04:28 GMT
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Yeah BL are the worlds finest badge engineers! Ahead of their time for that at least. The way things are going we might as well be under a Communist regime with one car maker and one style of car - there isn't any choice these days! Still, if people buy them then they get what they deserve don't they?! Even under post Stalin Communism (which really wasn't communism in any genuine sense at all, it was just state capitalism under a new name, you have to remember that not all socialists wanted the same things as the corrupt leaders) there was more variety than there is in large western car companies nowadays, which shows how bad it's getting. I mean, even though all car companies in the USSR were lead from Moscow, they still had differences, ie Skoda didn't trip over Lada's toes at all, even though they were building cars of similar size, (Zhiguli and 110 for example, or Samara and Rapid/Estelle) and ZAZ and Trabant were never in direct competition, whearas nowadays VW is putting almost identical VWs, Skodas, Audis and Seats up against each other in various markets, which seems like a sure way to split and destroy a company to me, in the same way BMC got into trouble through having various cars in the same market sector (eg at one time the Mini, Minor and 1100/1300 would all be fighting amongst themselves for sales of small saloons, while Rootes, Ford and GM had far less overlapping in their respective model ranges. Or am I talking rubbish? ;D
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Sept 11, 2004 14:18:11 GMT
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I wasn't really getting into the rights and wrongs of badge engineering, that's not deign or styling, that's marketing, and there's nothing wrong with selling product!
I was just trying to point out that not many crs are actually designed. The first mini absolutely was, Issigonis was a first class auto motive designer.
Detroit understood in the fifties and sixties, they even called the designers stylists, they weren't designing cars, they were styling objects for consumption (and they wern't half good at it too!). I believe that Richard Hammond made a similar point on Top Gear recently regarding the Renault Megane and Peugeot 206 convertibles.
Modern cars are just too damn expensive to engineer from new to take many risks, and platform sharing help keep the cost down so that people can actually afford new cars. However this does create the problem of how to differentiate a SEAT say from its VW brother, and this is what styling is used for. Most of the actual design gets hidden inside the engineering while the styled nose and tail become seen as the actual design, which they are not.
Sadly, styling can be taken too far (Renault Vel Satis and Avantime) perhaps two solutions looking for a problem.
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