fred
Posted a lot
WTF has happened to all the Vennies?
Posts: 2,957
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Fair play to you for all the hard work and effort that you put into your cars. Your threads are always a good read and as much as breaking a car you care for is always a pain I personally think you are doing the right thing. The orange one seems a bit weak in places and would be a fairly big project in its own right let alone with the two others to consider. Break it and use the spares to get the red one ready for sale then make the beige one the best princess you possibly can with all the bits you now have and then enjoy driving it Good luck with it all Couldnt have put it any better than that as the internet saying goes ^^^Like he says ^^^
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'79 Cossie ran Cortina - Sold
2000 Fozzer 2.0 turbo snow beast
'85 Opel Manta GSI - Sold
03 A class Mercedes
Looking for a FD Ventora - Anyone?
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How on Earth does the headlining get that dirt in that area?!?!?! Was the driver 9 feet tall or something?!
I think I'm blinded by the glorious orange paintwork but that Wedge does look like the more that you dig, the more horror will be revealed and that's not a good thing!!!
As had already been said, strip Operation Orange down to it's skeleton shift the Red Devil and get the Beige Beauty up to spec'...
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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Mar 27, 2014 10:32:08 GMT
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Thankfully, the head grime is on vinyl so it'll just scrub off and that'll be easy to do once the headlining is removed. I have this image in my head of a mild mannered, sheep farming, church attending, wedge driving, giant of a man in his nineties having owned this car from the stuff that's been found in it.
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Mar 27, 2014 11:29:51 GMT
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I can imagine Bernard 'Carry On' Breslaw driving it...!!!
It is glorious to look at in the pictures but if it's hiding horrors it's best off being used as a large quantity of quality used parts...
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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TS
Part of things
Posts: 558
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Mar 27, 2014 14:46:28 GMT
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This is presumably from when Notts County were in the Anglo Italian cup final (twice in consecutive years). We lost one and won the other. Is it an old copy of the Evening Post?
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Last Edit: Mar 27, 2014 14:47:10 GMT by TS
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Mar 27, 2014 16:20:01 GMT
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Having worked on/restored cars in the past you have made the correct decision. Cars stood for a long time never age well (cars need to be used - they actually rust less when used) and will need new rubber anything on them.
Buy an angle grinder (if you don't have one) and cut the front off the car off. Use the slam panel & bonnet. Keep the inner rear arch repair panels - yours may need them in the future.
Clean the headlining with some mr muscle kitchen cleaner (how greasy was that guys head!!!)
Strip out everthing else possible & weigh the car in for scrap again (worth about £100)
You already have 1 project too many (too little time & money for both) so keep focused on the things you CAN do, not the things you would LIKE to do.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Mar 27, 2014 18:14:23 GMT
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Picture time. The car arrived on a beavertail truck and the brakes are on-off, when we were pushing it off the truck we though the brakes had stuck on, it was only when we looked underneath that we realised the selector box was hanging loose and wedged in place so there was a bit of jiggling to get it free before we rolled off the truck. This car is a genuine barn find, having been squirreled away by its second owner - who had owned it since 1986 - back in 1995 on his farm. I'm told the car was a sod to get out of its resting place and then when the yard I bought it from got it back, nobody really wanted to race it and they had no idea what they were going to do with it. I swapped some pictures of the Queen for the Princess, a fair exchange all round, and we eventually got the car down the drive. First impressions were that the car was good, and restorable. Resplendant in vermillion with a pristine black velour interior. I also thought the car had a list to the front driver's corner, you'll have to take my word for it that it doesn't. When we got the car down to the hard standing it sat level and at the correct height, I daresay the suspension on this one is exceptionally good. Driver's door top hinge pin is worn out and the door sags, it won't close properly. Brand new metal sills are present on both sides and appear to have been welded in very well. Someone has spent some money on this car and it was one of the big reasons that breaking it was initially a difficult decision. The bonnet won't close properly either, but the valance is in reasonable shape with some rust evident but not huge quantities. The slam panel is in great condition but the bonnet has rust by the driver's side hinge which is not a location I've seen these go on, I suspect it's to do with the plant life and bird detritus in the same area. The engine is all there, an earlier O series it still has the parts I need, including the all-important thermostat housing which saves me £40 immediately. I'll be removing and rebuilding the head before putting it on the beige car, especially since both cars have done about 75k so wear should be about the same. The carburettor has already been removed and fitted to the red Princess to see if it will solve the overfuelling issue. The bottle resting on the brake servo is the fuel tank. Looking under the car you can see a hole in the fuel tank and a fairly hefty bash, I also have to assume the sender/pump is knackered. This picture pretty much sums up this car. More shortly... I thought this was the first registered production Princess? A T-plate would make it 1978, and Princess production started in 1975. I know who has the earliest registered Princess, its much more crusty than this and is on a P-plate.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:39:38 GMT
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I think you may have missed a bit of this... I've been given the opportunity to own the first Princess off the production line, but it's in a very bad way and while I have no doubt I could complete it, the car has appeared at precisely the wrong time and I may have to let it go as much as I want to save it... Then I got a tip off earlier today about another Princess sat in a local breakers yard, so local in fact that it's less than 10 miles away. An orange HL of '79 vintage... That should clear things up a bit! I'm the worst for missing bits out of threads so I am always having to re-read things so it makes complete sense!!!
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Last Edit: Mar 27, 2014 18:44:24 GMT by grifterkid
***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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Mar 27, 2014 19:32:17 GMT
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TS: It was an Evening Standard, good spotting! VIP: This isn't #1, this is a more different orange Princess. I'm letting #1 go, I can't make it happen as much as I want to. blackpopracing: That's exactly what I'm doing. I need to get some fresh discs for my grinder and get busy chopping all the useful stuff off. There's not going to be a lot left after I'm done that isn't fixed to one of my other two cars. A first glance said this car might be worth saving but the more I dig the worse it gets so I'm actually really happy I decided to break it now and don't feel at all guilty when comparing it to even the red car let alone the much better beige car.
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Mar 27, 2014 19:32:34 GMT
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Today I planned to get the interior (apart from the dashboard) stripped and fitted to the beige one. If it hadn't been for the weather I would have managed it, I came very close. Before I get to that bit, I want to show you all the reasons the orange car is getting broken. All of these areas are in better condition on the beige car. Floor to sill under the rear seat both sides. Floor over the outrigger under the driver's seat. Floor over the outrigger in front of the passenger seat and floor to sill seam. Rear driver's side arch. Rear driver's side door. Front driver's side door. Rear lower quarter, driver's side. Lower trailing edge and lower leading edge of driver's side front wing. Incidentally, these areas are good on the beige car so I can make one good wing out of two bad ones and that's exactly what I plan to do. Lower leading edge of passenger front wing. Passenger side rear arch. Passenger side lower rear quarter and bumper mount. The sills shouldn't be too tricky to remove either, under the weather strip it looks like a pigeon was given the task of gluing them to the car. Even if I swapped the better panels from the beige car to the orange one, I'm still left with a much larger welding bill to even get through an MoT, let alone the additional work the orange car needs that either doesn't need doing or has already been done on the beige car. This isn't all the rot in the orange one either, the front valance isn't as perfect as I hoped and I found another patch of rust where the rear seat support joins the passenger side inner arch.
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Last Edit: Mar 27, 2014 19:32:43 GMT by Deleted
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,417
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Mar 27, 2014 19:36:56 GMT
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Those pictures really show how bad it has become. Breaking definitely seems to be the best idea, especially if it will keep the other two going. Keep up the good work!
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Mar 27, 2014 19:51:21 GMT
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Found another nicknack in the orange car, it's an antifreeze tester. I've added it to my Giffer Stuff box because I like these random bits of nonsense that I find in old cars. Needs a new bulb but otherwise works as it was designed to. Fortunately for me, the seatbelts in the orange car are identical to the ones in the beige car so I no longer need to get custom belts made. I knew one of the stalks was frayed from the last interior swap but never really investigated it fully, now I know just how bad they were I'm very happy to have swapped to the stalks from the orange car. I also changed the seatbelt in from the orange car as they're in better condition too. The weather was changable today, less than ideal for swapping interiors around or really doing anything outside, but I perservered. I'm on a tight deadline so I can't afford to waste a day even when the weather is appalling. Got the carpet out and cleaned up, it was really just dusty and has barely any fading at all, it also seems to fit better than the black carpet that went in. Rear seat too was only dusty, there's no thinning or bleaching of the top of the seat back as is normal for Princess rear seats, they don't even smell funny! Front seats were the easiest install I've ever done. Normally they're right fiddly things to get in but these just dropped straight in with no fuss at all. The velour still feels grippy, there's no fading, no loss of pile on the fabric and the seats are still firm and supportive without any of the usual sag and bag. These seats are frankly astonishing. I got one door card fitted and swapped the good handle from the back to the front until I can get a decent black replacement. I also got the interior B pillar trim fitted before the seatbelt and put the black door seals in only to find they're considerably plumper than the brown ones I had in and the driver's door is now difficult to shut without using considerable effort. I'd like to fit a brushed aluminium or stainless steel trim into the grab handle recess to break up the relentless sea of black a bit. The parcel shelf is removed with the use of a hammer and refitted in much the same way. Unfortunately I couldn't remove the vinyl trim under the rear window which is still brown, it's a screen out job because you have to drill out some rivets and there's no good access to do this or to fit new rivets, I'll do it when I get the rear screen surround repaired. I've said before I'm not a fan of black interiors and this is not my first choice. With some adjustment I will be content with this interior and the condition of it far outweighs any misgivings I have about the colour, I've never had a car with an interior this nice. With some subtle tweaks and additions of a small quantity of brightwork, the cabin on this car is going to be very smart and it actually does the Champagne Beige paint some pretty hefty favours, so much so that I'm actually keeping the car in the original beige with black C pillars and door surrounds.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:24:59 GMT
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I missed a bit. Inside the soggy and ruined HBOL that came with the car (I have another, it's pristine, I have never used it) was a little document that illustrates more goodies in this orange car that I really need. The brake discs and pads must have been fitted just before the car was taken off the road but it looks like they might only have been fitted on the driver's side so we'll have to see how lucky I've got there when I take a peek. The clutch has only done about 32k too so that might still be good as a spare part. Tellingly there was a bookmark in the HBOL on the rear suspension sphere section so I wonder if it's had work/replacement spheres on the rear not long before being laid up too, it could explain why it sits so well.
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Mar 28, 2014 19:27:58 GMT
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More progress today, not quite as exhausting as yesterday as I didn't have to refit so much into the beige car this time around and I had a helper for a couple of hours in the afternoon to make the work a bit easier. I said there was more rust to be found in the boot. Today I took out the very good boot mat, spare wheel and assorted detritus so I could see if there was much of use to the beige car back here. This isn't a rust hole, it's the hole for the bumper bolt to go through, there appears to be no bracket on the bumper from a cursory look either. Spare wheel well usually rots out, and this is a fairly average looking one. Beige car has already been repaired here. Inner arch to seat frame, inner arch to floor both rusty and much worse than the beige car. In addition to the plate that's undoubtedly hiding more rot, there's a few spots coming through on the inner arch on the top that the beige one doesn't suffer from. Other side and you can see the rot in the corner. The beige one has gone here too, but not quite as badly. I dread to think what that plate is hiding. Bumper mount on the passenger side is ruined and you can see the rising rot in the lower quarter. Fibreglass on the blown inner arch seam is causing problems rather than fixing them and you can see through the rear 'chassis' member where there's more rot claiming bits of car. Then we get to the monster hole. Arch trims are pretty tricky to remove, but this was one of the easiest because it wasn't really attached to anything. There was an ENORMOUS block of filler, fibreglass, newspaper and mesh where there's now a gaping hole where the arch used to meet the rear door. Got one of the door cappings off, and found even more rot. The doors on this car are going the same way as the ones on the red one that I binned in favour of the other banger racer's doors.
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Mar 28, 2014 19:57:56 GMT
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So, rust aside, we've been busy. Removed the grab handles, dashboard, glovebox, front parcel shelf, sun visors, rear view mirror, steering wheel, remaining C pillar trim and door membranes. Then we got the steering column, pedal box and air vents out too. we're pretty close to bare shell inside which will make removing the wiring loom, dashboard mount, glass and headlining a good bit easier to get out. There wasn't a huge amount more to be done inside the car so attention turned to mechanical stuff. Brake master and slave cylinder, clutch cylinder, both headlight trims and one headlight (pesky seized and rusty screws), steering column support bracket, manifold heatshield (finally got one!) and that previously mentioned rear arch trim. Looking pretty empty in there now. These cars are brilliant to strip down, most things are easy to access and we were lucky in that many of the fixings on this one were secure but not seized. Wherever possible, fixings and fastenings have been put back in their respective holes so when I come to reusing any of these parts it will be that bit easier. This did highlight that the play in my steering rack is actually the pinch bolt inside the car that holds the knuckle/rose joint to the column hasn't been fully tightened, having a (mechanically) good car to compare against was vital to diagnose this. Did some work on the interior of the beige car and with a very quick wipe down of Autoglym Rubber & Vinyl spray they've come up astoundingly well. Apart from this door. The dodgy grab handle I had won't go back on because the little thing at the top that stops you pulling the handle off the door is broken. I did liberate a good plastic clip from the orange car so I could fit a brown handle I have and now this doesn't pull off every time you try and shut the door. I'm on the lookout for a new black handle for this door now because this bugs me, but slightly less than it would if there were no grab handle there. Those seat covers have made it into the car, I make no apology for them because I think they look superb in the new interior. I need to get some offcuts of black carpet for the inner sills as the ones from the orange car were in poor condition. Tomorrow I should be making a start on removing glass and engine bits. I was disappointed to find that the thermostat housing, while good, has half a waxstat stuck in it just like the red one so I'll have to get the hole saw on that which was a job I thoroughly enjoyed last time.
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,417
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Mar 28, 2014 20:13:23 GMT
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Sterling work Mr. Vulgalor! Really like the black interior in the beige car.
Would vinyl paint or something similar be an option for the brown pull handle?
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Mar 28, 2014 20:18:36 GMT
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Looks very smart, amazing how well it looks almost straight away
Couldn't the door handle be blasted with some vinyl paint? I know its a touch sacreligous-y but on the upside black is in theory an easy one to get a colour match for.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:31:36 GMT
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I'd rather get a black handle if I can, I'll use the vinyl paint route if I get desperate. Someone somewhere must have one, I just need to make some enquiries.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:50:56 GMT
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Mar 28, 2014 21:10:52 GMT
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BL brown vinyl does that in the sun, my original parcel shelf is very nearly black in places. Looks like the vinyl on the C pillars hasn't fared much better!
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