stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Best way to bend brake pipestealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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I need to redo all the brake pipes on the Proton to bin the ABS. I need to put some fairy tight 90 degree bends in the pipes. What is the best way to do this? I've used the proper brake pipe benders before but don't have access to them this time.
I've thought about clamping them around a piece of tube/socket but would this work or will they still kink? If I warm the pipe up a bit will it make it easier to form?
Matt
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Jan 22, 2012 10:02:10 GMT
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I've got a proper bender but seeing I now use copper / kunifer it's rarely used. Often just "thumbs" are used but if tighter bends then maybe a broom handle or what else is handy. Only thing I'll say is don't bend too tight in one go and check for pipe collapsing. Definatley no heat !
Paul H
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,791 
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Jan 22, 2012 10:02:33 GMT
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You should be fine doing that with steel or kunifer. Wouldn't go smaller than about an inch radius tho. I've done it before with no problems ;-)
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Midas
Part of things
Posts: 515
Club RR Member Number: 14
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Best way to bend brake pipeMidas
@midas
Club Retro Rides Member 14
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Jan 22, 2012 10:20:19 GMT
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I use the small bender from Automec, costs about a tenner and does a brilliant job.  |
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craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,998
Club RR Member Number: 35
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Best way to bend brake pipecraig1010cc
@craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member 35
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Jan 22, 2012 18:33:36 GMT
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Isn't it part of the new 2012 MOT rules that if it had ABS from the factory that it has to be present and working?
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Jan 22, 2012 19:11:38 GMT
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Bending by hand is fine with copper, taking care to feel for the collapse point. For really neat bends a pipe bender does what is says on the tin, and they're cheap.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,062
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Best way to bend brake pipemk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Jan 22, 2012 19:57:09 GMT
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Isn't it part of the new 2012 MOT rules that if it had ABS from the factory that it has to be present and working? only if there was signs of the abs light or the block or even pipework to suggest it had abs ;D if theres no sign of it, its not a problem from what i understand of the rules as a tester  |
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Jan 25, 2012 12:56:27 GMT
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What is the reason for wanting to get rid of the ABS? This sounds like a bucket load of work and hassle and I would like to understand the reasoning behind it...
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Best way to bend brake pipestealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jan 25, 2012 13:11:40 GMT
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Because even when it's working ABS is curse word I use the fact that the car skids to hit corners faster. Mine was only working on the rear wheels due to some monkey bypassing the ABS unit for 2 of the lines.
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Jan 25, 2012 13:32:42 GMT
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removing abs!, don't forget the boring bit.
be careful, the mot may not be a problem but its not that simple. Cars standard without ABS often have some form of rear brake limiting device, could be in line pressure reducers, load sensing valves, 'G' valves, different size wheel cylinders or even drums instead of disc's.
so if you just remove the abs valve block and re pipe you 'may' have some valuable parts missing. some have the parts even with ABS so check the full spec of a none abs model.
Whats the fuss you may ask, well a hard brake application especially in the wet could result in rear wheel lock up, basically an unexpected hand brake turn!!!!!!!!!!!!
just to add insult could even be a declarable modification to the insurance.
cant say theres anything wrong with a good abs system,
Keith,
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Jan 25, 2012 13:41:45 GMT
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So new wiring harness unless the ABS is a seperate item, new instrument cluster to get rid of ABS warning light, new hubs as exisitng will have ABS ring, new master cylinder as ABS is probably different, new brake pipes, maybe change of calipers and wheel cylinders to non ABS spec etc. Then there is informing insurers of removal of a safety related item and also it could mean BIVA test to confirm brakes OK as VIN will show that ABS was standard fitment and automatic MOT fail if DVLA records that tester has aren't amended. OK I'm scare mongering but personally I'd simply keep the ABS  Paul H |
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Jan 25, 2012 13:48:05 GMT
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how old is the car? most cars I have worked on have a separate rear brake pressure limiter, or load compensator, ABS cars tend to run larger brakes if there is the option. also ABS and non abs often use the same m/c, with non abs having a pair of tee pieces hidden away somewhere. having an ABS ring on the hubs wont be an issue, just say non abs shafts were not available at the time  (if they fit of course!) |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Best way to bend brake pipestealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jan 25, 2012 15:14:20 GMT
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You guys are thinking too much. I've done this job a few times just always had the proper tool for bending the pipes.
Remove entire mechanical side of ABS system, re-pipe from master cylinder (2 unions) with T pieces in each line to split for each wheel. Ajustable bias valve in the rear line, tell insurance. Done.
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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Jan 25, 2012 16:29:03 GMT
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also how the fack would removing the abs have anything to do with a BIVA test? brakes have NO value relating to a vehicles identity as per my understanding of the rules
good luck matt - if the proton's as quick as I've heard I'll be looking forward to a passenger ride!
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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Jan 25, 2012 21:01:11 GMT
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also how the fack would removing the abs have anything to do with a BIVA test? brakes have NO value relating to a vehicles identity as per my understanding of the rules OK I am probably wrong but here is my argument - The VIN MIGHT state that the car was fitted with ABS from new. A VIN decoder normally give the original manufacture specs. That means an MOT tester should then expect ABS when a car is presented to them. They can't simply ignor what is suppose to be there. How do you then get around that ? Maybe an MOT tester might want to comment if the record comes up with type of brakes when presented to them. Paul H |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Best way to bend brake pipestealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jan 25, 2012 22:07:14 GMT
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MOT rule for ABS is
If an ABS or ESC system has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. However, this does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component e.g. brake disc or drive shaft.
Cheers
Matt
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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Jan 25, 2012 22:59:27 GMT
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also how the fack would removing the abs have anything to do with a BIVA test? brakes have NO value relating to a vehicles identity as per my understanding of the rules OK I am probably wrong but here is my argument - The VIN MIGHT state that the car was fitted with ABS from new. A VIN decoder normally give the original manufacture specs. That means an MOT tester should then expect ABS when a car is presented to them. They can't simply ignor what is suppose to be there. How do you then get around that ? Maybe an MOT tester might want to comment if the record comes up with type of brakes when presented to them. Paul H ^^ I understand what you are saying here, and I think matt has answered it pretty well in his following post - I was just making the point that even if your MOT tester flagged it up to VOSA as a modified vehicle, unless the rest of the vehicle was heavily modified outside of the 8 point rule, it wouldn't need a BIVA test some good points raised though - incase someone was contemplating 'un-ABS-ing' their car by chopping random bits of brake componentry out oh, and I've never owned a car with ABS, but every hire car I've had with ABS has been ming to drive hard - especially a LWB movano on ice  kfw |
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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BT
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,772
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Every hire car I've had with ABS has been ming to drive hard - especially a LWB movano on ice kfw I don't think I have ever hired a vehicle with out the ABS light on! We did my pals mini with a scaffold pole and sort of rolled the pole across the workshop table but held one end of the brake line to the pole (if that makes sense) We did have any of the pipe fold, crease or collapse and it worked fine when fitted to the car. I don't know if that technique will give you a tight enough bend though. |
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Copey
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,845
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If you use copper you don't need any fancy tools, just bend by hand, arround knees and for tighter bends arround the handle of something, just go easy and be gentle with it, it's what I have done and never had any problems |
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1990 Ford Sierra Sapphire GLSi with 2.0 Zetec
1985 Ford Capri 3.0 (was a 2.0 Laser originally)
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Jan 26, 2012 11:37:54 GMT
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Forget doin it by hand bud, take the guess work out of it and get one of the tools above, ive used em
for years, If you put a kink in a good length of line, it'll be scrap for that task and the cost of the wastage will have paid for the tool, and if your like me, that will p#ss you off immensly!
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(if they fit of course!)
