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Dec 29, 2011 13:54:13 GMT
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I accidently dropped a very small, thin brass washer down the spark plug hole - the sealing ring on a compression tester funnily enough.
then I started the engine. ir ran for 40 secs or so at idle.
just as it started, I heard a light tapping from the engine. after a 5/6 secs it went.
I removed the spark plug and you could see it had been hit by the washer, it was cleaner than the rest although not damaged in any way - gap was still the same.
looking down the spark plug hole, I cant see the washer. you can see a couple small nicks in the sooty covering on top of the cylinder.
I removed the inlet manifold - no visable damage to valves. no sign of washer.
I did a compression test. all OK.
I put the engine back together and started it again. let it idle for a few secs. seems ok.
so. do I assume that after a few seconds of combustion the brass washer simply melted and got blown out of the exhaust?
or. do I assume its still in there somewhere and pull the head off?
the engines only just been put back together after a head gasket and they're expensive! don't want to pull it all apart unless I have to.
opinions?
thanks - and merry xmas!
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Last Edit: Dec 29, 2011 14:59:38 GMT by ukmercman
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Dec 29, 2011 15:00:12 GMT
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Hmmm I think id be playing safe rather than sorry. It probably has melted it copper has a fairly low melting temperature but as I say id rather be sure than have a bent valve or holed piston a few minutes later.
Melting temperature of pure copper is about 1084 degrees c. That sort of temperature could concievably be achieved in a conbustion chamber but unless you know the exact alloy the copper washer is you cant be sure of the melting temperature.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,543
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Dec 29, 2011 15:40:36 GMT
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Could you borrow an endoscope? Or maybe find a local mobile mechanic who has one?
(Aluminium alloys have quite low melting points but you don't usually melt pistons unless something goes wrong...)
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Last Edit: Dec 29, 2011 15:41:54 GMT by Seth
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Dec 29, 2011 16:19:09 GMT
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Could you borrow an endoscope? Or maybe find a local mobile mechanic who has one? (Aluminium alloys have quite low melting points but you don't usually melt pistons unless something goes wrong...) Good point as the heat of combustion is dissapated very quickly by the cooling system. You really would be best to make sure there are no foreign bodies in the combustion chamber before running an engine. |
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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Dec 29, 2011 16:23:54 GMT
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endoscope - had to google that - thats a good idea!
they have a few cheapie one's ebay - USB jobbies.
might give one of them a whirl - damm sight cheaper than a head gasket!
thanks for the pointers.
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Dec 29, 2011 16:27:33 GMT
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If it fitted down the hole it should probably fit back up, try to find something to fish it back up with, and a couple bags of patience.
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Dec 29, 2011 16:54:57 GMT
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Clear plastic pipe down the plug hole attached to a hoover? cut the end at a 40 degree angle so it doesn't just suck flat against the piston top and give it a good rodding around. Have someone watching the pipe so you know if anything comes out.
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Dec 29, 2011 18:58:32 GMT
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Clear plastic pipe down the plug hole attached to a hoover? cut the end at a 40 degree angle so it doesn't just suck flat against the piston top and give it a good rodding around. Have someone watching the pipe so you know if anything comes out. That is an awesome idea. Cobblers you are an automotive genius! ;D |
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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Dec 29, 2011 20:13:27 GMT
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I dropped an injector cap in there once on a Fiero.
It popped out of the exhaust a minute later.
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'83 GTM Coupe. 4A-GE Powered
'00 GTM Libra Auto. Ick.
'71 Detomaso Pantera. Current Resto
'89 GMC Safari Tow/Kip bus
'05 SAAB 9-3 Daily
'71 Siva Moonbug. Not even contemplating resto yet.
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Dec 29, 2011 22:21:44 GMT
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You really would be best to make sure there are no foreign bodies in the combustion chamber before running an engine. Bet the OP is really grateful for this bit of advice seeing as he's dropped a washer into the cylinder, run it and is now wondering if there'll be any long term effects. |
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Dec 30, 2011 20:13:45 GMT
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My guess would be that it has been spat out of the exhaust by now, hopefully theres no long term damage as the compressions are ok. Endoscope is the way to go.
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Dec 31, 2011 18:27:36 GMT
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Clear plastic pipe down the plug hole attached to a hoover? cut the end at a 40 degree angle so it doesn't just suck flat against the piston top and give it a good rodding around. Have someone watching the pipe so you know if anything comes out. BRILLIANT!  I wish I had thought of it when a screw got sucked in from the carb on the Imp,took the head off  to find screw a bit mashed and some marks on head and piston,your tip would have worked a treat,its made worse because its an Imp and I hate taking the heads off unless I really have too! |
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Dec 31, 2011 18:33:49 GMT
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What happened in the end? Did it come out?
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1993 Mercedes-Benz 190e LE in Azzuro Blue.
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Clear plastic pipe down the plug hole attached to a hoover? cut the end at a 40 degree angle so it doesn't just suck flat against the piston top and give it a good rodding around. Have someone watching the pipe so you know if anything comes out. That is an awesome idea. Cobblers you are an automotive genius! ;D I was going to say that, but put the cylinder near TDC (or so the valves are shut) and suck away. Maybe the washer went out through the exhaust valve? |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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When the new engine went into my 944 it had an injector clip stuck in the bore. Fortunately it was found before it was the fired up via an endoscope and taken out after an hour or two of faffing around with a method similar to Cobbler's.
I would put an endoscope down to see if it is there just to be on the safe side.
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gruss
Part of things
Posts: 242
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Where abouts are you based? I've got a snap on bore scope which has helped me out (and other people) many times!
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Daihatsu Mira TR-XX
Suzuki Alto Works
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ianal
Part of things
Posts: 37
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Jan 10, 2012 17:34:14 GMT
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When I was doing my city and guilds at college, the tutor annoyed one of the students so he took the plugs out of the tutors allegro and dropped tiny bolts down the holes. The student was suspended and when he returned, the tutor had bought himself a 2cv. One day while the tutor was out his 2cv was stripped to its component parts and laid out on the workshop floor like a giant puzzle. Kids eh?
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Jan 10, 2012 17:49:24 GMT
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Ok...have I gotta a good one...or rather a bad one!!!  I'm fairly certain that I already know the answer...but am hoping that there's an "Auto Einstein" out there with a better solution for me. So here goes...what started out as a seemingly simple "spark plug re-thread task"- spiraled downward ( literally)!!! I purchased the OEM Fix-A-Thred Thread Repair System after several people claimed that it was a "simple task" and could be done in 20-30 minutes. Basically, while tapping the hole I turned once too far...and the tap fell right into the head. Yep...just like that. First problem was, I was working with recessed plug holes, and even though I kept eying down the hole with the light to avoid over turning, I never actually measured. I just hadn't expected or thought that there was enough clearance to allow the capability to actually drop clear down into the hole (tap appx 4" long). So, like an Eskimo trying to catch a meal, I sat there (for several hours) trying to fish this thing with the magnetic rod, trying to get it stood upright and at least coming back up through the hole. So, that's where I'm at. It is upright, and possibly in the the first groove...but I'm not about to let go to check. So, now what? I don't have any way to get a grip on it to try to turn it back up...other than this super-duty magnetic force. Is "firing it up" even an option? Sure, if I am lucky enough to shoot it out, it would surely destroy any re-thread work I had accomplished...but is that worth the try? Clearly a stupid and costly error on my part...ANY help or advice would be appreciated. Do not under any circumstances fire that up. The only way to get that out is to pull the head. Sorry. |
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Jan 10, 2012 18:16:10 GMT
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^ +a billionty!!
If you fire the engine up, consider it scrap
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You're like a crazy backyard genius! |
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Jan 10, 2012 22:45:28 GMT
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^ +a billionty!! If you fire the engine up, consider it scrap Out of interest, wouldn't the chips created by cutting the new thread have done bad things to the engine anyway, even if the tap hadn't dropped into the bore? So, two ideas here - don't know if they are good or not. How about popping a small magnet into an appropriately sized extension bar, 3/8" maybe? Fish for the tap as before, but this time the magnet engages it with the square drive enabling you to wind it back out. Otherwise, how about taking all the other plugs out, get the tap on the magnetic tool as you have done then turn the crank pulley to bring the piston up into contact with the tap so you can let it go without it dropping back down. Then you can get the wrench onto it and wind out normally. |
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I wish I had thought of it when a screw got sucked in from the carb on the Imp,took the head off 
to find screw a bit mashed and some marks on head and piston,your tip would have worked a treat,its made worse because its an Imp and I hate taking the heads off unless I really have too!
I'm fairly certain that I already know the answer...but am hoping that there's an "Auto Einstein" out there with a better solution for me. So here goes...what started out as a seemingly simple "spark plug re-thread task"- spiraled downward (literally)!!! I purchased the OEM Fix-A-Thred Thread Repair System after several people claimed that it was a "simple task" and could be done in 20-30 minutes. Basically, while tapping the hole I turned once too far...and the tap fell right into the head. Yep...just like that. First problem was, I was working with recessed plug holes, and even though I kept eying down the hole with the light to avoid over turning, I never actually measured. I just hadn't expected or thought that there was enough clearance to allow the capability to actually drop clear down into the hole (tap appx 4" long). So, like an Eskimo trying to catch a meal, I sat there (for several hours) trying to fish this thing with the magnetic rod, trying to get it stood upright and at least coming back up through the hole. So, that's where I'm at. It is upright, and possibly in the the first groove...but I'm not about to let go to check. So, now what? I don't have any way to get a grip on it to try to turn it back up...other than this super-duty magnetic force. Is "firing it up" even an option? Sure, if I am lucky enough to shoot it out, it would surely destroy any re-thread work I had accomplished...but is that worth the try?
