1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP (higher axle stands)

Presumably the objective of removing the torque converter is to try and get onto the flywheel to turn the engine?

If so then can you do one of the following:

Lever the flywheel teeth against one of the bolts (the one in the last picture above would be ideal) with a crowbar.

Insert a large flat bar into the gap between the flywheel and torque converter.

If not can you now remove the entire crank assembly from the bottom of the engine or can you undo and remove the conrods and pistons, release the stuck pistons and then the crank will turn so you can unbolt the converter.

I had a go at that last night homersimpson but feel like I'll just break teeth off the ring. Also tried putting large bar in the gap between flywheel and flying-saucer but there's no clear space right thru.

I may give the soaking approach another try...

I poured a lot of stuff down the bores over the years and always wondered where it went. I was thinking I might measure this when I drained the sump, under ideal conditions, but that all went out the window when so much of it ended up on the floor this week.

However when I was draining the box last night and running out of containers I poured some of it into the bores and you can see how this would never be very useful due to the V formation. You only hit part of the cylinder. So I may try jacking it, side to side, so I can soak the complete bore on each bank.

One thing I will say is the ATF looks very dirty and I was under impression this would normally be clean



draining ATF from box




V-formation does not lend itself well to filling bores with penetrant

Cheers gess

tbh I'd never thought about torque-convertors before now but it seems that it's not really connected to anything other than the flywheel so regardless of how you split things you can always correct it on way back. Like you can have it positioned in the box correctly when you marry them back up but then you'd still need to bolt it back up behind the flywheel either way. I suppose you could just turn to propshaft flange to revolve the flywheel

you can actually take the crank out with them both attached. also someone has offered me a flying-saucer for nothing so that would be the one to sacrifice if I need to go down that route

The atf should be red and virtually clear, that black would indicate it either very old or the clutches are slipping, at the very least I would pull the trans sump off and see what is in there, then change the filter, Ideally it needs stripping and the clutches checking / replacing (parts are not usually too expensive) but getting it all spotlessly clean at home can be a challenge.

on un seizing it I wonder if you might be better off turning it upside down taking the crank out then filling each bore with diesel etc from the back, that way instead of it dribbling down one side past the rings the whole piston will be submerged as it slowly leaks past the rings.

So I got to the barn last night (Friday) and achieved more than I imagined but was up early and lost most of the day accommodating other ppl so cba posting much right now (Saturday).

First thing I noticed on arrival at the barn was more oil under the engine, which should have stopped leaking by now - surely! Anyway looking at the tops of the pistons it seemed the fluid I poured in a few nights previously was a little below the face of block
Surely it couldn't be seeping past the rings, topping-up whatever oil is in there and then causing a slight drip to the outside world till things balanced out again? Good if it is the case but that would be too easy and also really needs to be right around the pistons - not just just on the (lower) outer edges.

Anyway. The task in hand was to get the engine of the subframe and onto the deck. I figured I could jack it under the oil-pan/sump and the front near the timing-chain cover. So to do this I set about removing the remainder of the oil-cooler hoses etc and the anti-roll bar. These were in the way, being at front. I noticed the rubber mounts for the ARB were pretty squidgy but they appear to be cheap so will be getting replaced. The oil-cooler hose leads back to a big filter-housing thing with various different-size fasteners and one of them (relief-valve?) needs a huge spanner size but at other end has a hose with crimped connectors. I don't like disturbing these things as you can never re-do them as good as factory. I .'. chose to just leave the housing etc on for now and disconnect the gland-nut that the hose connects to it by. The housing may cause problems soon, when I want to tip the block, tho.

I was also drawn towards removing the timing-chain cover for some reason. This had nothing to do with getting the engine off the suspension but am still confused as to whether I'm striping the engine down or trying to un-seize it


It was probably because I was trying to turn the crank with the big pulley-bolt, that I ended up un-doing, which lead to removing the pulley and then backing-out taking the cover off as I thought you needed to remove the sump first.

Now I have a good Sykes-Pickavant puller but the first thing I learned about these is that the legs fit nothing that you need to remove. You need all sorts of legs dependant on the diameter of the thing you want off. The legs ahrdly move out or in at all as they are engaged with the central yoke (not just by the pivot-bolts. Anyway the last time I took one of these I 'adapted' a home-brewed tool I use with the puller on my Mondeo front hubs. I never planned to use it again (on V12 pulleys) but hey 'needs must' and it worked fine

After that it was back to the job-in-hand so with various blocks of wood I jacked the block up creating a decent gap to pull the suspension out from but there were bits that I could take off the suspension easily that would make it easier....

Steering rack and shocks were obvious candidates but it's not that easy to get in at the shock lower bolt and am sure there some issue with my L & R as one shocker was trapped very tight between the subframe and arms and the other had a good gap. I couldn't get the track-rod end balljoints to pop so there was more faffing about undoing the arms from the struts so I could take the whole rack off that way.

I also took the roadwheel off one side and after that it was a case of judicious jacking and a little careful dragging and it was out. I could then relax the jacks and call it a day.

It went well


pretty sure floor under engine was 'clean' last time I was here




am sure these were filled higher a couple of nights ago




oil-filter housing left in place for time being. hose disconnected with big shifter



hose is also fixed to side of block




think this anti-roll bar rubber has had it



ARB outer-ends being disconnected from links



trying to turn crank ended up with pulley-bolt being un-done



puller no good for this job as legs don't open wide enough




home-brewed adapter called in to do the job



pulley off



let jacking commence





shock lower mount



on N/S needed to remove caliper bolts to get steering arm off



taking steering-rack bolts out



rack out c/w arms attached to balljoints



more bits removed



dragging subframe out



tight fit under the block




engine being separated from suspension



block lowered down

So I went to the barn tonight to do a bit more strip-down and was amazed to see one cylinder totally empty which ad been full of dirty ATF. One next to it had dropped quite a bit and one of the ones at TDC was dry too but that might not have had any on it. Will need to check prev pics.

This means that even if the engine is still stuck I can at least rule-out or remove the free ones and focus on others which aren't drinking the mixture


these pots were full the other night



am sure this was covered too

One thing I don't get is how the concave CROWN of the pistons are 'dry'. Maybe it's that the y aren't totally horizontal so everything is running to edge

yip. mb speaking too soon ivanhoew but I think I may have sat on this problem for about 7 years and could've been resolved in 7 days

Will soon find out.

I always imagined there'd be some sort of fanfare/marking-of-the-occasion/week-of-debauchery when/if I ever got this engine un-seized but I may have done it last night and have not yet noticed any change in my routine

So what happened? Well after a day labouring for a friend and realising I'd left my paint-brush (which I needed again today) on the wall of the customers house, which just happens to be about a mile from the barn, I set off late last night to get the brush and look at the lump.

Well I actually intended to further-clean the floor with washing-powder (cheap and it worked) then get the engine upside down and continue soaking the pistons/bores.

It didn't go that way. I got the engine upside-down more easily than I expected without putting any strain on the studs or the timing-gear brackets

After that I set about scooping another oil slick off the floor and added to whatever was in tubs and cans of oil started to drown the problem-areas. This seemed to be creating oil slicks underneath straight away and I had no idea if the stuff was ATF or engine oil or what so I abandoned the (sensible) step of soaking them from under the pistons and started taking the big-end caps off.

Now I never expected to be able to remove all these with a locked engine as I noted when stripping the (free-turning) XJS V12 block that you needed the conrods to be in certain position to do this and/or remove the pistons. It something I used to fret about: "even if I do remove the engine I'll not be able to get all the pistons out"

Well 8 were easy, as the nuts were accessible, and I figured that would be plenty to get some up & down action. With the caps off and tapping the conrods (with plastic/wood between hammer) most of them moved quite easily but there was still no moving the crankshaft.

I found I could actually reach the awkward nuts with a 12-point offset ring-spanner (and a pole for a bit leverage). Despite the high torque the 4 of them yielded without any damage to the (unusual) 12-point nuts. There was still no movement on crank but I guess for that I'd have had to make sure all the pistons had moved at least some way down their bore.

Anyway after that it was getting late and I was labouring again this morning so it was up the road and quick check of manual to see if there was anything I needed to know before removing the crank-bearing caps. Manual just says start at middle and undo the small fasteners first.

So next visit I think will just be a case of lifting out the crank (c/w flywheel and torque-convertor) then working on the pistons. I think I'll try to remove them down the way so the rings don't need to scrape past the carbon-ring/muck at top of the bores.

I'm starting to think am going to find a nut dropped into the oil-pump or something



engine turned upside-down without putting strain on studs or timing-gear






various pistons with their position in bores arrowed



most big-end caps removed but can't get socket to nuts on some (arrowed)



offset (12-point) ring-spanner did the job



all caps off and some pistons moved but nothing on crank yet