foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Aug 17, 2022 14:49:27 GMT
|
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17, 2022 16:23:37 GMT
|
The link below shows someone doing this on an XK engine (which I assume is the same process) and is the same way as I have done them previously. Personally I haven't put any sealant on these before and if you are having trouble getting them into the groove then it might be better to remove the sealant and start again. www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1197266079&n4=Nice one. Thanks for the link. I got the seals in today using different (correct?) approach and didn't bother with sealant. Will post on that later. Am reasonably happy with the result but if I had another pair of seals and didn't need to return the tools tomorrow would do it again. The one's i've done haven't leaked although i've not done that many. Apparently they can leak from being left idle for a long time and then being put back into use but that might just be due to the use of rope seals not being a particuarlly good idea (albeit probably better than the scroll on the rear of the early XK engines!).
You've made really good progress on this in the time that i've been following you thread and your tenacity in getting the studs out was amazing, I would have given up long before.
|
|
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Aug 17, 2022 18:58:15 GMT
|
Yip. The studs were something else. Thanks for your comment Usually things seem easier after you've succeeded but I'll never forget the months/years of trying to overcome that hurdle. I give myself a large pat on the back for the winters night where I went to buy the hotplate I saw in a Gumtree advert. In years to come all Jag V12 restorers will be doing it that way and I will know I was the pioneer
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
|
So the latest on the rope-seals is that I was told best to do it again and also not to use the white 'asbestos' ones that come in most of the kits - from what I can see. So I have ordered some grey ones and the company have hired the tools to me fro another week. Basically I need the seals to arrive pronto so that I can get it done again and return the tools a week late. Anyway, last week, when I was working on it a lot of time was spent cleaning all the main-bearing shells and caps. I've mentioned before my disgust at how rusty oil-covered parts can go when an engine is dismantled and these were no exception. I didn't degrease these parts then leave them in damp air. They must've had a film of old oil on them but still flash-rusted badly. In fairness I think the heat from #ovengate may have been a factor as the shells have a smoky appearance from when they were in the heat I guess. So I was cleaning them with wire brushes etc and gently cleaning the actual shells including the backs and inside the caps. I can see a couple of bright areas on the first and lest shells so should perhaps get new set. On that subject I have seen that brand new liners seem to have came down in price dramatically. About £50 each. I was looking for one a while back and paid approx that for a used one (c/w late piston) that is quite corroded. Have already spent quite a bit on honing tool and replacement stones so prob better just to get a new liner. Hey why not get 12 new ones? You see my point? where does it end. Ages ago when I dismantled the HE engine and was numbering the main-bearing caps I'm sure there was some memory that you don't need to do them all as the front, middle and rear are different and yadda yadda yadda So after removing these (from their original locations) and scratching numbers into the dirt as I couldn't find any markings I decided to punch dots on them. I did #4 (which is really #6) then found there were marks on #1, #2 & #3 (really #2, #3 & #5) after cleaning them properly This suddenly made sense of the numbers I noticed on the sump-gasket face. I'd assumed these were to ID locations of odd-length sump-pan screws (there are a few) but it's actually to show the locations of the numbered main-bearing caps. cleaning rusty main-bearing caps cleaning the shells & caps too blank #4 was punched before finding numbers on #3, #2, #1 numbers on caps correspond with numbers stamped on sump-gasket face full set of main-bearing shells may be needed
|
|
Last Edit: Aug 22, 2022 9:59:34 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Aug 29, 2022 14:35:37 GMT
|
Ok so a bit of a balls-up with the rope-seals.... Due to being a weirdo I felt sorry for a single one I saw on Ebay and then found one at a good price on the normal web. I always prefer Ebay as the P&P is visible but when you go onto a normal dealer for one tiny part they (understandably) have sort of 'standard' charges for shipping that aren't always appropriate for the size of the part. So I had two en route from different sellers and thought might actually be ok in case one took ages to deliver. So the next day I get an email from the Ebay ppl saying 'sorry, out of stock and can't give date for more' So am thinking 'jfw! the other one will prob takes weeks to arrive cos it's not Ebay and the tool has to go back in a day or two!!' Next day a seal arrives so I email Ebay ppl (wh have already refunded me) to say the thing arrived and need to pay you. They reply to explain otherwise. Basically I bought the 2 off same ppl, via different routes, when they only ever had 1 By this time it was Thursday and I got the tools on a Thursday 2 weeks prior so I had to do something that night with the one seal I had as there definitely wasn't another coming. So after a hard day's work I forced myself back out at night to the barn with the seal and realised the tools were back at flat boxed-up ready to return to hirer. I tried to stay calm and worked on putting the seal into the bearing-cap. The logic here was that it sits under the other seal and is more likely to leak down low. I was amazed at how much easier the grey seal went into its groove than the white ones had. I just rolled it flatter with a socket extension (used like a rolling-pin) the used same to knead it into the groove and it seemed to be much firmer and hold its shape. Perhaps buoyed by this small 'success' I flew back home for the tools and back down again (16 miles so far) to finish the job off. If you remember last time I batted the tool into the seals (with cap bolted to block) then did a bit of twisting to polish it but was told this was not the right way to do it. S000, this time, I figured it would be quite easy to do it properly as I was only really fighting with one seal as one was already done (badly?). So I bolted the cap back on and then started trying to push/rock the tool through the seals, with some graphite paste as a lube. All I can say is that it was very very hard to do. It took hundreds of twist and a lot of forward force to get the taper past the seals onto the large OD of the tool. I'd say nearly an hour. I was listening to Hearts getting beat by Zurich on the Radio and decided if it wasn't thru by full time the wooden block was coming back out. I got it thru just before the end of the game. Anyway I'm quite pleased with the job. The new seal seems to be supplied the correct length so I didn't need to cut the ends and they may have actually filled some of the mess in the groove for the seal in the block. I ordered this seal from same place twice via different routesseal pushed into groove on bearing cap easilyit took a lot of time and effort to get tool all the way home between sealswhite seal in block after 2nd sessiongrey seal in capfinished job (LHS)finished job RHSseal in cap (to)0 probably done better than seal in blockNext bit of progress was getting a very good used liner for £30 (posted) off Ebay. I've been looking for a while for something like this and suddenly there's a guy selling nearly a full set (11?) for £30 - £40 each. He must be pricing them according to condition altho they all look reasonable in the pics. The one I got (£35 with offer of £30) arrived today and I'm very pleased with it. So this will be used to replace the one I cracked on disassembly and the others I'll need to start honing/glazebusting again. Then there will be a lot of measuring which is a bit pointless as I'm going to use them anyway used liner £30 inc P&Pseller sent exactly the one I picked out of multiplebore looks good
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Sept 1, 2022 13:12:39 GMT
|
So after much final-cleaning and blowing-thru of oilways I reckoned it was about time to try the crank in the block. I've taken the block back off the engine-stand to do this as I'm worried about the increasing weight. However it'll need to go back up somehow and I'm trying to work out the logistics of this. My basic plan is once the bottom end is done I'll be putting the engine back on the subframe and continuing the build from there. That, however, means I'll need at least the pistons, conrod, liners, crank and sump components to all be on the engine before it goes on the subframe. I'm therefore thinking I'll need to make some sort of jig to support the timing end and also have some way of turning it 180 degrees. Bit of a headache but meantime I put the graphite paste on the crank shells/journals, bolted the caps back on turned it with a big spanner on the pulley-bolt. I wouldn't say it was easy to turn but there were no tighter or looser spots and the rotation was interrupted as I had to re-position the spanner when it cam back round to ground-level crank cleaned and ready to gographite paste on shellscaps bolted onbig spanner 1 5/8"video clip of crank being turned
|
|
Last Edit: Sept 1, 2022 13:13:08 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,960
Club RR Member Number: 174
|
|
|
Did you try the crank in the block before the rope seals were fitted? I was taught to do that first, then you know any resistance in turning after the seal is fitted is the seal dragging, which is normal, but can mask other issues.
|
|
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Sept 3, 2022 12:09:21 GMT
|
Did you try the crank in the block before the rope seals were fitted? I was taught to do that first, then you know any resistance in turning after the seal is fitted is the seal dragging, which is normal, but can mask other issues. No I'm afraid not and as no parts were replace, other than the rope seals, it should be fine as the car did about 60000 miles with same parts. Anyway I've taken it back out, as this was just a quick check before I work out what to do rorqued down to correct fig (regarding the stand, and notice that some of the shells don't have an even spread of lube. Not sure what this means but I could put more lube on and/or have the caps torqued down to correct fig (84Nm for the bigger nuts) as I just had them nipped-up need more lube? In other news I have the bare bock back on the stand and have decided to make support legs for the other end. This could turn into another diversion (like on my Imp thread making a frame for the bellhousing end ) so I opted to use some ready-made points in the shape of the engine-mount brackets. I happen to have spare ones, from the HE block, so bolted them back on. Then I started making removable legs, to attach to the brackets. I could have welded directly to them but then their uses would be limited. If I leave the brackets as they are I can make other legs for when the block in the other way round. So first thing I had to do was make a sort of stud on a metal plate to bolt to the bracket. I am of the opinion that as soon as you MIG anywhere near a thread (like a bolt or nut) the thread distorts and is ruined but in this application it won't matter too much. So I just drilled a hole in the thick piece of plate and stack a bolt (M8?) that I found thru it. Welded the head of the bolt to the plate then welded the plate to some old square-section tubing I have (used same for Imp engine-frame). So that's the first leg knocked-up roughly. Will try to get the other done today then I'll feel more confident about plonking the crank into the block on the stand. engine-mount brackets put on block and plate with stud fashioned bolt-head welded to back of plate and fits in slot on bracket providing some scope for adjustment angle of leg seems better in real-life than pics
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Sept 5, 2022 22:50:46 GMT
|
So an unexpected day off today gave me some time to work on the VDP project.... I made up the 2nd leg then put a couple of plates on the bottom of each leg to make feet. I'm also puzzled as to why the threads on the bolts I welded on are fine. Could run a nut up and down them fine with no distortion like I've experienced before. Maybe it's something to do with the metal the component is made from. These two bolts were not matching so just luck perhaps. Anyway with the feet welded on and the legs bolted to the brackets they are sitting pretty equal which is good I reckon I have decided to paint them in blue Smoothrite to match the stand so they are in electrolysis just now and will hopefully paint them tomorrow. I then cut some metal to do legs for when it's the right way up. I could've used same square-section tube as i did have bits long enough but in the stash spotted some pretty heavy angle-iron that was about the right length to yield two pieces and so cut that instead. One advantage of this stuff is that I won't need to have a captive stud welded in as it's 'open' but will prob end up doing it anyway. 1st pair of legs now finished and getting ready for paint legs bolt to brackets on block angle-iron to be used for next pair of legs
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
|
Not much of an update but got the legs de-rusted and painted. Next move is to make the other legs up
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Sept 10, 2022 22:33:38 GMT
|
|
|
Last Edit: Sept 10, 2022 22:34:23 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
|
|
Sept 10, 2022 22:45:50 GMT
|
I've welded lots of nuts and bolts to things of all sizes and never had a problem with distortion once everything has cooled down. Its looking great, will be good to see it all come back together.
Whats the rest of the car like? I've always wanted an early XJ, it would make a good stablemate for my MK2's (although I would need a much bigger stable!).
|
|
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Sept 11, 2022 11:39:32 GMT
|
Thanks homersimpsonBelieve it or not the body is all sorted. I did the sills etc years ago and am 100% sure it would pass MOT (on that aspect). The front wings and doors still need some metal-repairs but that's cosmetic imo. For such a popular car the XJs seem to be quite rarely restored. I've never seen one at a local car show for example when you see lots of MkIIs and E-Types, The XJ did have banger-status I guess but still a bit of an iconic car. That's good to know about the welding. Now I'm going to get over-enthusiastic and start trying to tap welded parts
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
Jun 21, 2023 22:08:45 GMT
|
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 21, 2023 22:10:29 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|
foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
|
|
|
Bit of a cheek to call this an update but I did look at the VDP last night and was struck by how much more rust-free it is than the car I use every day! Why was i looking at it? Well I'm trying to get my Mondeo thru an MOT (working outside in the rain and cold) so I can earn some money again and needed a good pair of axle-stands to do some work at the back. The stands just happen to have been holding the front of the VDP up, since I rolled the engine out from underneath of it about 3 years ago, so I needed to get them out. In my lock-up I have some really tall stands that I have never used and these would actually be ideal for the VDP if I ever roll the engine etc back under it. When I pulled the engine out the clearance under the front crossmember/radiator-support was very tight and that was with the heads off. The extra inches on these stands should allow me to get it back under. needed these stands from under the VDP wanted to swap them for these taller ones improvisation with wood to get the extra lift tall stands in place shorter stand now under the daily
|
|
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
|
|