bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Dec 13, 2011 16:16:43 GMT
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Do you want me to look up the book figures for toe, caster and camber on autodata? I could get that tomorrow morning but would need to know what year and model of micra it is so as to confuse the steam powered computer  Mind a full degree of toe sounds too much to me. Without looking at the actual figures I reckon it should be around half that or a fair bit less. |
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 16:50:07 GMT
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Auto data says 0. Toe I believe or little more I think!
Set the camber to 1deg. And I suggested 30 minutes total toe. But too much and possibly half again so 15 minutes
Tracking I didnt get time to do today so ill have it done Thursday
Auto data info is a 1993 Nissan micra k11 1 or 1.3 no arb
Thanks guys
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Dec 13, 2011 17:09:14 GMT
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Toe in: 1mm+-1mm - 0.6'+-6' degrees
Camber: 0.23'+-45' degrees
Caster: 2.19' +-45' degrees not adjustable
KPI (SAI): 12.32'+-45' degrees
Included angle: 12.55' degrees
Rear toe-in: 1.50mm+-2.90mm not adjustable
Rear camber: 0.30 degrees negative +-30' not adjustable
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Last Edit: Dec 13, 2011 17:10:03 GMT by Minikidx14
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 17:44:10 GMT
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Could you explain that?
1mm+-1mm - 0.6+-0.6?
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Dec 13, 2011 17:55:11 GMT
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1mm plus or minus 1mm or 0 degrees 6 minutes plus or minus 6 minutes i think. but I'm not 100% sure just what autodata says
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Dec 13, 2011 18:32:56 GMT
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That means that the setting range is between 6minutes toe in and 6 minutes toe out. In that case I would set it bang on 0. Or a little maybe 3' toe in to improve stability. To much toe will really murder your tyres.
I know it seems really obvious but you have checked your tyres are inflated to the correct pressures right?
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 20:08:28 GMT
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yeah i set them with a digital tyre inflater, and both fronts are matched tyres of the same tread wear!
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Dec 13, 2011 20:31:04 GMT
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Did the car actualy drive alright before it was lowered?
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 20:41:39 GMT
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yeah, after i had the front end repaired in the jig, as it had been badly repaired before after what seems like a serious crash
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Dec 13, 2011 20:43:01 GMT
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Despite what everybody has said bump steer can be a real problem to sort out. First thing to do to identify bump steer is with car stationary and the wheels straight ahead, get somebody to bounce the front of the car up and down whilst you watch the front wheels. If the toe in/out changes as the car bounces then you have a bump steer problem. This is caused by the steering rack being the wrong height in relation to the steering arm on the hub, this means as the car moves up and down the track rod effectively becomes shorter or longer in relation to the steering arm. The only answer is to modify either the rack mounting or the steering arms on the hub. Neither of these is something a novice should undertake its really a job for a specialist custom builder.
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 20:55:14 GMT
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well the car may be returning stock soon so i wont go as far as that!
however the steering arms are pushing up high!
ill try that when i get a mo
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Dec 13, 2011 20:58:22 GMT
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That means that the setting range is between 6minutes toe in and 6 minutes toe out... No it doesn't. If it's 6 minutes, plus or minus 6 minutes, then it means the range is 0 to 12 minutes. So you should be aiming for 6 minutes if you want it exactly as the factory suggests. What's the deal with the rear suspension anyway? It's really not good if you're running at full damper extension all the time, and will do weird things to the handling. |
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 21:04:22 GMT
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That means that the setting range is between 6minutes toe in and 6 minutes toe out... No it doesn't. If it's 6 minutes, plus or minus 6 minutes, then it means the range is 0 to 12 minutes. So you should be aiming for 6 minutes if you want it exactly as the factory suggests. What's the deal with the rear suspension anyway? It's really not good if you're running at full damper extension all the time, and will do weird things to the handling. i was mistaken from first fitting... they have taken another coil with ease, and with no weight in the car they will come back to the top and touch the bump stop but when I'm in the car it comes nowhere close! but makes it much more comfortable too! |
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Dec 13, 2011 21:07:45 GMT
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That means that the setting range is between 6minutes toe in and 6 minutes toe out... No it doesn't. If it's 6 minutes, plus or minus 6 minutes, then it means the range is 0 to 12 minutes. So you should be aiming for 6 minutes if you want it exactly as the factory suggests. What's the deal with the rear suspension anyway? It's really not good if you're running at full damper extension all the time, and will do weird things to the handling. Yep your right sorry. I seem to be confusing myself with possitive and negative values attributing to which direction the toe is rather than the obvious correct use of a mathematical symbol. |
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Dec 13, 2011 21:29:49 GMT
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they have taken another coil with ease, and with no weight in the car they will come back to the top and touch the bump stop but when I'm in the car it comes nowhere close! but makes it much more comfortable too! I'm still a bit confused here. So when there's no weight in the car, but the car is resting on its wheels, not jacked up at all, the rear suspension is at full extension? and is being restricted from moving up anymore by the dampers? But when you're in the car, your weight compresses the back enough that this isn't the case, and the car is within the dampers travel? If I've understood that right it's still far from ideal. For that to be the case you'd have to be running very, very soft springs, and/or only just be off the dampers full extension once you're in the car. If you're happy with your current ride height, I'd have said you really want to be getting some longer shocks and stiffer springs on there. If you're talking about them touching the top with the car jacked up, then all's good, and it's normal, but it's not technically preload in the sense it's normally refereed to in terms of car suspension. If this is the case, changes to the spring will effect ride height, even if the springs still being compressed when there's no load on it. Yep your right sorry. I seem to be confusing myself with possitive and negative values attributing to which direction the toe is rather than the obvious correct use of a mathematical symbol. Fair play, it's an easy mistake to make, technically it should be "±" not "+-", which is where the confusion comes in. |
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 21:34:06 GMT
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they have taken another coil with ease, and with no weight in the car they will come back to the top and touch the bump stop but when I'm in the car it comes nowhere close! but makes it much more comfortable too! I'm still a bit confused here. So when there's no weight in the car, but the car is resting on its wheels, not jacked up at all, the rear suspension is at full extension? and is being restricted from moving up anymore by the dampers? But when you're in the car, your weight compresses the back enough that this isn't the case, and the car is within the dampers travel? If I've understood that right it's still far from ideal. For that to be the case you'd have to be running very, very soft springs, and/or only just be off the dampers full extension once you're in the car. If you're happy with your current ride height, I'd have said you really want to be getting some longer shocks and stiffer springs on there. If you're talking about them touching the top with the car jacked up, then all's good, and it's normal, but it's not technically preload in the sense it's normally refereed to in terms of car suspension. If this is the case, changes to the spring will effect ride height, even if the springs still being compressed when there's no load on it. Yep your right sorry. I seem to be confusing myself with possitive and negative values attributing to which direction the toe is rather than the obvious correct use of a mathematical symbol. Fair play, it's an easy mistake to make, technically it should be "±" not "+-", which is where the confusion comes in. when the spring pushes back up with no weight, it will hit and re compress. as i can lift it a little till it hits the top of the shock again! and yes the rear spring is rather soft imo but it works well for what I'm after |
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Dec 13, 2011 21:40:24 GMT
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Ah, ok, so when it's static, with the cars weight on it, it's not at the top of it's travel, but you can lift it enough to get it there by hand? Fair enough, that's not so bad, just like you say, it's a bit soft, but shouldn't make any real difference to strait line handling.
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 13, 2011 22:28:30 GMT
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nono not at all, ill have the toe set thursday when its booked in!
is that 6 minutes total or each side?
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Dec 14, 2011 10:17:41 GMT
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moving the rack only a few mm is usually enough to counter any bump steer. as said before keep checking the tracking at different ride heights to check how much it moves.
one thing i would say is if a car is lowered the effective suspension travel is dramatically reduced so you have got to use much stiffer springs. thats why cut springs are really a bad idea to go that low.
cut springs for a very small drop. custom very heavy duty springs for a large drop. and stiffer shocks. run the tyre pressures lower to make the ride more comfortable, probably around 24 psi. you don't need high tyre pressures in a light car.
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Dec 14, 2011 20:13:14 GMT
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NO cut springs here  only on the rear with harder dampers |
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only on the rear with harder dampers