will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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all the time I'm being told that being as low as I am about -4.5" from standard that I'm messing with the geometry of the suspension etc etc... the fact is that I'm having problems with going straight, and as micras are very suseptable to road camber to start with, but I feel I'm always correcting something and rarely I can happily sit there with the steering wheel fully straight! bumpsteer etc etc is a factor... but I was wondering what others peoples experience of this are of being really low....  |
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2011 21:50:02 GMT by will930
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I take it you have got the tracking adjusted, and all the front end bushes are in good order? Both of these things will make a car want to wander around the road.
Lowering can mess the camber up (yours looks fine though) and since things are working past "design limits" on some cars it'll cause bump steer, but having the tracking miles out or baggy wishbone bushes is usually a lot more noticeable than "non ideal" steering geometry
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Last Edit: Dec 1, 2011 22:27:33 GMT by cobblers
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Russ
Part of things
Posts: 372
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Since lowering my corsa on coilovers, i've got alot of bumpsteer, so i have to hold the steering wheel to keep it straight sometimes. I've also found lowering has made the steering lighter for some reason.
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On the point of bushes, lowering a significant amount as you have can cause bushes to be stressed at rest position. This will obviously reduce their life, and on a car that is nearly 20 years old they're probably in a bad way before you start.
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I've got Rovers.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Depending on the design it can also alter the castor which will make the steering lighter/heavyer as the ARB can push the lower arm/TCA back as it gets higher.
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R.I.P photobucket
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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I take it you have got the tracking adjusted, and all the front end bushes are in good order? Both of these things will make a car want to wander around the road. Lowering can mess the camber up (yours looks fine though) and since things are working past "design limits" on some cars it'll cause bump steer, but having the tracking miles out or baggy wishbone bushes is usually a lot more noticeable than "non ideal" steering geometry This. Lowering front wheel drive cars a lot often results in noticeable amounts of toe-out. If you haven't had it checked then it's well worth doing, ad toe-out will make the car twitchy and wanting to dart off across the road all the time. It's also likely that there will be some bump-steer, but this shouldn't make the car unmanageable on normal roads. There is ways to correct it, but I'm not sure on the details of a micras set-up other than that it's a mcphearson strut. |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,543
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A change in wheel offset could also make a difference if a car is quite sensitive as you're moving the tyre contact patch in or out relative to the steering axis.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Thanks for the great replys and I have had the tracking done many times now and had to replace passenger lower finished the drivers side is unknown! The canned is also set to a tenth difference each side!
Since fitting my winter wheels its the same and the offset is much higher!
For instance a straight road with canned I have to hold the wheel slightly the other way to correct it! Maybe due to a very low castor angle not pulling the wheels in!
Also I have no arbs
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Thanks for the great replys and I have had the tracking done many times now and had to replace passenger lower finished the drivers side is unknown! The canned is also set to a tenth difference each side! Since fitting my winter wheels its the same and the offset is much higher! For instance a straight road with canned I have to hold the wheel slightly the other way to correct it! Maybe due to a very low castor angle not pulling the wheels in! Also I have no arbs When you say canned, do you mean camber? What are your measurements from your tracking? If you post those up, we may be able to tell more. There is a fine balance between camber, castor, KPI angle (even without a KPI) wishbone angles etc. When you lower, and add offset, all of these things are upset. |
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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I have the print out at home. It shows the camber being out but using a separate gauge it shows it being ok. Ive set it by using slotted holes in the bottom mounts of the suspension as its the only at with my set up
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if you have to constantly hold on the steering to correct it abnormally to keep it straight there is something drastically wrong which makes it a potential deathtrap and should not be on the road. Surely modifying cars is about making them handle better not worse, I have lowered several classic cars in the past and if you are getting bumpsteer there is something wrong, there should be NOTHING below the 'scrubline', in other words if you draw a line across the bottom edge of the wheelrims nothing should be lower than this point as if you have a tyre deflate whatever is below that line will hit the road. I might be an oldy but have been modifying cars for over 30 years and believe you me, safety must come first, cool looks second.
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CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
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I'd bet it's not actually bump steering. All your symptoms sound like bad toe to me.
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rodney
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https://www.facebook.com/RD-vehicle-transport-and-recovery-services-525622614268010/
Posts: 1,677
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or plain tramlining,.
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facebook: rodney dean / rd transport  |
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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After lowering mine I have to hold the steering wheel at about 10 degrees off center to keep straight, let go and drifts, although slowly, to the left. In wet conditions when driving over drain covers or man holes you feel lightness in the steering for a split second.
I'm pretty sure this is because when everyone you know says "after lowering you MUST get the car re aligned" and I didn't/haven't.
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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ive had it tracked many times now and it handles antastically i think I'm far too choosey I'm still trying to get the alignment print out sheet up!
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I wouldn't say bumpsteering and tramlining was "handling fantastically" !!
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I have the print out at home. It shows the camber being out but using a separate gauge it shows it being ok. Ive set it by using slotted holes in the bottom mounts of the suspension as its the only at with my set up If you have moved the bottom arms out by slotting the inner pivot that will have a negative effect on the geometry as presumably you would have to adjust (lengthen) the steering arms on the rack to compensate and keep the toe correct. |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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It does handle well its simply it just feels odd but I'm used to driving modern cats where there steering is always pulling forward! Micra don't do that to start with they are generally hazy
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AB car pix
Posted a lot
Car mag' snapper
Posts: 1,337
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Bumpsteer, wandering, tramlining..... don't all cars do this?! ;D
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1979 Chrysler Horizon 1.3 GL 1980 Ford Granada 2.8 Ghia 1985 Ford Sierra 3dr 1985 Ford Escort Mk3 1988 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth 1989 Ford Escort 1.3 Popular 1995 Volvo 960 1996 BMW 525i 1998 BMW 323i 1999 BMW 530d 2003 BMW 530i . www.facebook.com/ABCARPIX |
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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I'm used to driving modern cats where there steering is always pulling forward! Micra don't do that to start with they are generally hazy What do you mean by this Will? Its an interesting thread but you've lost me here! Thanks |
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