sumpcracker
Posted a lot
Yes, I’m still here.
Posts: 1,751
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I'm thinking the budget must be less than buying a 944 tbo engine, ie cheap engines- I cant afford ultimate power. The other option is.. My engine but Drop compression (either with a plate,skim pistons or turbo pistons) Manifold & link pipe from 944 turbo, mated to big mofo turbo, and homemade downpipe/exhaust. Some management, mega/sq, cosworth, 944 turbo ect. Injectors/intercooler ect to suit map and tune uprated 944 turbo clutch. And go from there. Would be gradual, and easy on the £££ if it bends rods and things its only a common £200 engine and the turbo bits can be swapped onto another.
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Hero! lot of mucking about though, wouldnt want to do that to my shell tbh. I think il have a chat with Dave, see if he is up for us developing the conversion on ine of his shells and then swapping it into my car when it fits/runs - less time off the road, and nothing to reverse if it goes tits up. (plus dave can have one too) Sounds like a plan - I still can't help but think the 951 engine would be the easiest/most cost effective/best results for the time, money, and effort despite how cool a V8 or 20v would be.
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saab 2.3 turbo engine, can be picked up for pennies. can be tuned yourself using a serial cable and t5 suite ( which is free btw) and guys are pushing these to 4-500 bhp with nothing more than big massive turbos and huge intercoolers and a good map
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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As said, you could get a 951 engine, but (at the risk of sounding boring) by the time you go to the time and lengths etc. you may as well get a Turbo car from the off (Brakes on the 250s were bigger than the 220 or S2 items in addition to other small changes like the 'box having an LSD). Even the blocks and heads differ a little to normal 2.5 items, or so I am lead to believe. FWIW, Sachs clutches for 951s cost around £600 now (I paid short of £500 for my S2 clutch only a few years ago) to give an idea of costs. The 2.0s have cheap clutches mind you in the 924 (this may have given me a bad idea of an engine swap to try in one of those now... (VAG 1.8T?). Maybe it's worth looking into getting a rotten but running 250 Turbo (they are cropping up quite a bit these days too) and making a good car from the two (you would technically have everything to put into and onto your car . The gearboxes are meant to be limited on the power they can take but it seems you don't want crazy power, so you could stick with that. Anyway, this is Retro Rides, so for something more constructive . £1200 IMO would get you almost the entire S2 running gear that you would need. I've seen rotten but running S2s fetch that! My engine cost me £750 (with searching I admit) when I swapped it for my knackered engine. Even though they are scared (and now the Turbo boys want the blocks for 3.0 or 3.2 conversion) I still think you could get one for around £900-1k (try Elliot@PorkaParts) or again you could get a rotten S2 that is known to be a good runner and that way obtain the loom/ECU engine et al. There is always the LS1 option which is quite sublime in a 944 . Cheapness does not seem to come with that option mind you, but what a German/American alliance... But if it were me for what you are suggesting I would be tempted to look at dropping in a 968 engine. More driveable power than a stock 250 Turbo (Variocam and extra CC probably pay dividends there), and it should be relatively simple with the 968 engine being based quite a bit on the 3.0 S2 engine . I have only seen one other 9x4 done with one, but the owner didn't half love that car. It was meant to be surprisingly quick! Costs, I do not know but it would probably be a little easier with the mounts etc. all there from the off and with the possibility of the wiring being similar. On the PCGB forum, Barry from Hartech did try to make a cheap 3.0 Turbo, with fairly effective results .
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I was going to suggest the saab 2.3 as they are appearing more and more on the Vaux scene (being GM based) the 2.3 iirc has the same bell housing fitting as the 2ltr 16v redtop or LET so adapter plates for RWD conversions are readily available from the likes of SBD and again iirc the 944 torque tube has the same no. of splines and is the same size as an F28 input shaft so in theory a LET clutch friction plate would work.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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I'd go 1JZ power, you can pick up a mouldy twin turbo Soarer for around £500 around 280bhp out of the box and another couple of hundred bhp available for the price of a big turbo...
Plus they sound lovely are compact for an I6 dohc and almost permanently refuse to die...
if you had to go for a 4 pot it's a Saab 2.3 all the way, all steel internals, tough as old boots bar the chain tensioners and awesome power available for cheaps..
Both of these engines are available for cheaps in the original sub £500 cars making them virtually free to replace once you've broken the doner...
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Last Edit: Jul 6, 2011 15:53:43 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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only problem with the 1jz is the cost of adding a manual box
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THIS: ... and that: Just don't forget to upgrade the rev counter.
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F20C? Mmm, 9000 Rpm...
Saab turbo lump is a good shout though.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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only problem with the 1jz is the cost of adding a manual box Agreed but that doesn’t make any difference which engine you choose, if you have to make an adapter plate it's the same wither way, it seems the OP is tending towards keeping the transaxle and making an adaptor for the torque tube, so it'll be the same process if he uses anything non Porsche... Also Toyota boxes are not 'that' dear, good W58's are less than £200 and as you know many seem to use these successfully for big power builds, agreed R154's do fetch decent money but not really any more than a decent WC BWT-5 which seems to be the de rigeur choice for a zillion Ford based transplants
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Ray Singh
Posted a lot
More German exotica in my garage now
Posts: 1,985
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Get yourself onto Rennlist.com. They can guide you through the process of putting a LS1 engine into your car. There are even kits available to do this and even a basic DIY enthusiast can do it (thats me out then).
The car then makes the noise and goes like it should. However, i just cant get my head around a German car having an American heart.
You could try to find a damaged 944 turbo (i know where there is a couple of these) and remove the running gear. The basic 250bhp car can be tuned to give 300 bhp without fuss or need for mortgage.
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lexus v8 seem cheap these days
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Last Edit: Jul 6, 2011 21:54:10 GMT by tattoo101
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sumpcracker
Posted a lot
Yes, I’m still here.
Posts: 1,751
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Saab is an interesting one, its passed through my mind a bit.
I actualy built the first Saab engined vauxhall (was a calibra M9OPEL) around 5 yrs ago, i remapped it using the t5 suite and did a bit of work, found 330 hp. The reason i didnt suggest it for the 944 is its a very tall engine, and the 944 has little room between the alloy crosmember and low bonnet.
V8 yank is a no go, too expensive and i just don't see it doing a realistic fuel consumption.
I like the 1JZ idea, its realistic - a lot of the other options suggested cost more than 944 turbo running gear - so why bother?
The 1jz, volvo T5, cost less than porsche tbo engines and put out better power (and sound) the saab is a contender but i need to mesure it up.
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if your discounting the saab engine due to height, do the same with the 1jz as its a tall fooking engine, especially with the length of it being closer to the front of the sloping bonnet than the saab. How about ca18det or sr20det, the CA complete can be had for a couple of hundred quid, spend maybe 500 quid and you have 350-400 bhp from it, if it goes pop then another one is 100 quid
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sumpcracker
Posted a lot
Yes, I’m still here.
Posts: 1,751
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Mmm, I can see why most people just stick there 944 on ebay and buy a faster car (most cars are faster) there doesnt seem to be a straight forward solution, aside from spending more on an engine than the car is worth.
I'm taking the bellhousing and clutch to the breakers monday to see what fits inside it and if anything has the same output shaft splines.
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sumpcracker
Posted a lot
Yes, I’m still here.
Posts: 1,751
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Hero! lot of mucking about though, wouldnt want to do that to my shell tbh. I think il have a chat with Dave, see if he is up for us developing the conversion on ine of his shells and then swapping it into my car when it fits/runs - less time off the road, and nothing to reverse if it goes tits up. (plus dave can have one too) Sounds like a plan - I still can't help but think the 951 engine would be the easiest/most cost effective/best results for the time, money, and effort despite how cool a V8 or 20v would be. But i cant justify 2k for and engine conversion, especialy when its a copy of a factory car, biggest issue i have is that they are not that fast in standard form and there are faster cars i could buy just for the price of the engine conversion. As i said in my thread, why bother when you can get audi S4s and M3 evo's for under 3K? If i bought somthing like a volvo t5 lump, 240bhp for £300, spent £500 on parts and fabrication, and gave it a remap - thats a monster for less than half the price of a 944 tbo engine, which is cheap to replace and sounds better also would be a 1 off. And i retract my previous thoughts on height, i will cut a hole in the bonnet if need be, i just want some fastness.
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Jul 11, 2011 10:45:56 GMT
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All these suggestions are very interesting i want to try one now lol was it the B204 you used in the calibra?
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Jul 11, 2011 11:47:53 GMT
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Sounds like a no brainer to me then....
I'd go 1jz for the noise BUT if you have experience with the Saab 2.3's than it seems daft not to, plus it is obviously smaller than a JZ and as such will simplify fitting... Plus there's almost nothing cheaper than a MOT fail 9000 esp with a slushbox...
Gotta be done..
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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