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May 10, 2024 12:52:08 GMT
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Come on Andy, where's the PMA? It'll get fixed, or it'll get replaced with a bigger unit Seriously though, you are right this engine owes me nothing - its the original lump and has gone well above and beyond in terms of its service. The oil pump failure is a freak thing - we have 5 RV8 powered vehicles in the family (my P6, my LR90, Dads 110, and his two 101's) and they have never given us much trouble. The only engine that we have ever rebuilt was the 3.5 in my 90 and that was just because I was converting the vehicle from its original 2.25 and I wanted something nice and new in there. You will no doubt fix yours - hopefully with not a lot of cost, and I will attempt to do the same... Keep the faith!
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Last Edit: May 9, 2024 20:16:05 GMT by quaggers
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Check the rocker shafts, slide the rockers along the shaft against the spring and see how much wear there is on the underside of the shaft. If so, fit new shafts. Colin Popped out to the garage in my lunch break and can confirm that although the underside of the shaft I have taken off is shiny and clean, there is no step or wear that can be felt. it can take quite a while for dry lifters to pump up could it just need running for longer? Yes I agree, I remember when I used to do a lot of rover K series engines it could take ages for them to pump up even when the car had only been apart for a few days. If it runs and the oil pressure is ok then I would try running it for a little while longer to see if the lifters pump up.
I ran it for about 2-3 mins and after the first minute or so gave it probably about 2500-3000 rpm for maybe twenty seconds (whilst gritting my teeth) before I let it settle, run a bit longer while I scampered about trying to see if I could see where the noise was coming from and then bottled it and shut it down. Pressure was great! I will continue checking everything including the other set of rockers, then the cam and followers – if I find nothing amiss, I’ll have to reassemble, try again and put my fingers in my ears while it runs... Have the rocker shafts been disassembled at any time? I believe it's really easy to fit the rockers wrongly and mess up the oil flow to the rockers! The rockers have been installed for a number of years (at least 4-5 years I would say) with no issues – I replaced the originals with a good second-hand set when a head gasket went randomly some time ago and I noticed some wear there. I used to commute 70 miles a day in the car all year round with no problems at all up until I changed jobs 2 years ago and now I have to get the train instead, which is a bit of a come down from the leathery-V8 goodness of the P6! Prior to the oil pump failing the old girl had been utterly reliable...
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Thanks for all the replies, here's the latest: Based on stealthstylz comment about trying to start it, I thought I'd give it a go. The engine was back together but with no cooling or PAS installed but I thought a quick 30 second run to see what's what wouldn't hurt. It started but the top end sounded horrendous, and pressure was around 1.5 bar at idle. I switched it off promptly... As per my last post I had decided to remake the spacer plate, so I took the timing cover off again so I could check clearances properly on the bench. When I took the filter off I found the oil was aerated: I think (hoped) that may be a symptom of clearances being too large in the pump, so cracked on: I got the plate sorted and this time clearances were nice and close, I basically kept installing the plate checking for witness marks and slowly removing material until things moved freely with no marks. I then set to checking the end float on the pump gears, I had three types on gasket, and eventually got the combination right to give me about 4 thou. Yesterday I chucked the timing cover back on, after cleaning all the duralac off the bolts again. It's a bit of a pain in the to do, but the stuff is absolutely magic at preventing them corroding themselves stuck and snapping when you need to undo them. Instead of vaseline this time I squirted a load of fresh oil into the pump from one of the ports using a syringe. Priming on the drill gave me some hope, the drill noticeably slowed down a lot more as the pump loaded up, and low and behold I was getting 3.4 bar (~50psi) on the gauge! Carried on assembling and went for a start.... Poo- still the same, engine running badly, shaking and wobbling and still making a terrible clatter (but not as bad as before) from the top. I hoped I'd messed up the order of the HT leads, but no. Time to take the top apart then... Rockers on drivers side were dripping a small bit of oil, the passengers side seemed pretty dry. Nothing felt odd when trying to wiggle rockers in place. I backed off the passenger side and tried the drill again, and sure enough oil came spurting out. On removal of the rocker gear that side no play can be felt on the shaft (giggidy) but perhaps the pads look a bit worn. You can see circles on them, but these can't be felt with a finger nail, so I will ignore for now. I tried the drill again with passenger rockers off and confirmed that oil shoots out- this was with the cordless just ticking along at minimum revs, it would have shot out across the drive if i'd gone full pelt. At this point it was 22:30 so I packed up. Will continue my investigations on my next "car night" which is Thursday. I guess cam and lifters may be toast after all..
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Last Edit: May 8, 2024 7:32:47 GMT by quaggers
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Thanks for the replies everyone, to answer some questions: Yes, the top end may be knacked, what did the cam look like, it's the wear point on these engines Cam looked ok from underneath when I had the sump off, which was surprising! As you say, 20psi hot idle would be nice- so I guess I am concerned that on the drill whizzing around at however many rpm with cold fresh oil I am only seeing ~30-35ish psi. The ally plate in the oil pump will wear as its too soft, don't mess around, just buy a new pump. Far cheaper then a new engine. Personally I'd drop the crank and fit new shells as well, no point in doing half a job on something so important. Normally you don't prime rover pumps, you pack them with vaseline as they don't have the suction to draw oil otherwise. Ideally I would have the engine out and sort things properly, but this is my daily – and the only car I have that can take both kids (my other vehicles are both SWB Land-rovers), so I need to get it back on the road ASAP. If I can do that then I would like to get hold of another 3.5 or 3.9 and build that up in the comfort of the garage ready to be dropped in at a more convenient time. The reality is that I am probably going to have to fit a proper forward-facing seat in the 90 first, which would allow me to take the P6 off the road for a while as she does need more TLC in general. Regarding the ally spacer being too soft, I figured that the oil pump housing is ally (it’s part of the timing cover), the pump base is ally too, so to my mind an ally spacer wouldn’t be an issue, I could be wrong though! The only way to remove the home-made spacer plate would be: • Revert to the short P6 gears and find a replacement dizzy (the old one had the end chewed off when the pump jammed). • Find an SD1 front cover – these are hard to come by unless they are attached to an engine. • Buy and fit another “high volume” kit – but having had this failure, and since finding a post from someone else on classicroverforum.net with the same issue after using the high volume gears I’d rather stick with standard later gears if possible even if they are a shade shorter. As for priming – the pump was packed with Vaseline, but rather than spin over on the starter, I prefer to run the pump off the drill first to get the oil moving about. When pressure is up you just drop the dizzy in and away you go. The car runs fuel and spark on MS and the old dizzy was a cut down stumpy job so you don't even need to faff about getting it in the right place and timing it up after removing it. Having slept on it, and prompted by Andy’s comments on hot pressures I think I am going to do two things as the next steps: • Remake the spacer plate so that it has good tight clearance all the way around. I could do it in steel this time, and whilst it would take longer to work than the ally, this could be a good thing when trying to get tight clearances around the gears as its harder to go too far. • Double check gasket thicknesses (I have a few different brands in my gaskets box) and see if I can get the end float tighter/correct this time. With that done i'll see what pressure I get - and l also need to check the rocker gear. Thanks all James
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Morning all, my question is as the subject line, but first some background...
A while ago the 3.5 in my Rover 3500s decided to lose oil pressure, as I was on a dodgy A-road with my kids in the back not far from home I decided to swing about and get home (about a mile and a half) at minimal revs. By the time I got back the top end was rattling but no bad bottom end noises were heard. On investigation I found this: So I pulled the sump and checked the big ends and mains. The big ends were all worn and showing copper, but there was no scoring on them or the crank. The mains were similar, but I'd say not quite as worn. I chucked in new big end bearings, was gonna do the mains but realised that although getting the top bearings out was fiddly but doable, fitting new ones was near impossible without damaging them. In the end I stuck with the old mains. The pump gears were a set of "high volume" ones that I fitted a number of years ago. Not wanting to trust them again I ordered of standard SD1 gears from a decent supplier and went to fit them, only to find that they are shorter than the high volume ones by around 2mm (here compared with "high volume" one): So I ended up ordering some ally plate and making my own thinner spacer plate to accommodate the SD1 gears in the p6 timing cover: On priming with the drill initially I must have cocked up my measurements for end float as the pump was locked, swapping for a thicker gasket the pump now turns. Priming with either my cordless or mains drill gives around 2 bar (it did show 2.5 bar at one point when cordless was on max charge). So my question is, is this high enough? My concerns in order of concern are: 1. In my haste to see it just work, I have put in too thick of a pump gasket and opened up the end float too much. 2. My spacer plate is not tight enough to the gears (see photo above, top-most gear at the 4:30 to 6:00 position, where I went a bit too far) 3. The top end may be knackered. 4. Maybe I really do need to change the mains. Your thoughts would be appreciated! Cheers Quagmire
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Apr 23, 2024 16:57:41 GMT
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Don't do it! Step away from the diesel...
Assuming it's just bad quality control on that valve that's caused the problem and not some bigger issue of something being in the chamber and breaking the valve then it is pretty easy to sort out.
With all 8 running it'll be sweet!
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Apr 11, 2024 18:59:25 GMT
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Looks good! One thing though, with the back of the unit so close to the wall it *might* hamper it's ability to draw air across the heat exchanger? Try it and see I guess.
When I fitted mine I had high temp exhaust silicone on hand so I sealed the exhaust pipe to heater body joint, I didn't want any CO leaks inside the garage. Having said that there's probably loads of people who haven't sealed theirs and who aren't dead.
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I've got one in my freestanding single garage. It's single skinned brick with a flat roof and no insulation. When it's around zero outside it can daily easily get the garage up to 15 or so degrees in an hour or so. I bought a "triclicks" branded kit, which is mounted to a board screwed to the wall inside the garage. Combustion air intake and exhaust gas are routed out through the wall. On full chat it sounds like a small jet engine from the outside, inside it's like having a large fan on. Things I have changed so far: The standard silencers really do very little to silence anything and are literally just have a spring inside and a tiny sheet of some kind of silencing material. I drilled out the spot welds, stuffed with rockwool and rivetted back together. This made a marked improvement to the noise. The standard ribbed exhaust also doesn't help. After reading about on it, I swapped this for some spiral walled tube which is more like the legit weber/eberspacher hose. This cut noise a bit more. I bought an "afterburner" control unit for it. This is the best thing I have done as it gives you all kinds of control, including remote monitoring. From the afterburner stats I can see that I use on average about 240ml an hour (running pump diesel). David mcluckie has a lot of interesting stuff to watch on YouTube.
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Love the cars in this thread- and it seems that Scalextric isn't dead! I got a set from my wife a few years ago (I'd said how much I loved it as a kid), and I decided to get it down for Christmas... One thing lead to another and I've made the jump to digital with Arc Pro - changing lanes and having proper timing information on a big screen (with the Magic ARC app) really adds to the fun! My wife and two daughters loved it with the four of us racing at the same time. Now planning to build something in the garage if I can...
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MTF94 helps a lot on these boxes, you can get it pretty reasonably (or at least you used to) from smith and allan. Lovely car
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Jul 26, 2023 15:22:48 GMT
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Nope read that again. Postponed = pistoned.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:22:08 GMT
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*postponed = reconned. Flipping phone!
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Jul 26, 2023 15:21:25 GMT
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Love this!
You've had the same start as my entry into p6 ownership, mine too had sat around for ten years after its previous owner had passed. Mine is also my daily, and up until a couple of years ago was doing sterling service on a 75 mile a day commute.
Brakes, check the rear calipers- they are known to leak after sitting. You can get recon stainless sleeved and postponed ones from a few places like wins, jrwadhams, mgbd etc. Mine actually worked for a while after getting back on the road and then gave up.
Good luck!
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Jan 23, 2023 15:57:08 GMT
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Hello all, I normally commute to work by train, but due to the landslip at Hook a couple of weekends ago I had to come to the office part of the way this morning in my beloved (and slightly rusty already) Rover P6. As you can imagine it is now covered in horrible salt. So my question is what methods do people use to remove road salt after a journey like this? I am thinking that I should probably stay away from the pressure washer for fear of forcing it into any overlapping panel joints etc, but any other tips would be greatly appreciated. Pic of said rusty car below when I parked it up this morning for interest Thanks!
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A great read as always, and making big strides too! Your plumbing shenanigans inspired me to finally get off my and do something about the hideous plumbing all over the walls in our downstairs loo, so thank you! We now have one tidy pipe which I can box in, instead of three of the things snaking all over the place... Carry on! James
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Nov 23, 2022 20:25:18 GMT
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Looks good! One minor change is that the rocker cover shouldn't have the plastic oil filler cap, it would have had an oil filler neck bolted to the drivers side of the block like this:
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Nov 19, 2022 22:53:38 GMT
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Ha! Pipped by James!
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Nov 19, 2022 22:52:52 GMT
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Yeah it would have been a 2.25, same as any other series vehicle, although pretty much identical to the 2.5 from the outside apart from the carb and intake manifold and probably breather arrangement I think?
Pete- might be worth asking on lr4x4.com as they are a very helpful bunch. I have two 4 cylinder petrols but both are at my parents about 25 miles away (one in their garage, and one installed in my series 2 swb which is kept over there).
Interestingly the one in the garage came out of my very early 90 so it has the later carb setup, and I *think* Landover marketed it as a 2.3 at the time to try and make it sound different to the series engine, even though they are the same 2286cc displacement...
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Also loving this thread, the place looks great and you are cracking on with it too! Wish I was a tenth as quick...
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