93fxdl
Posted a lot
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Posts: 2,000
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Jan 31, 2011 18:20:01 GMT
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cheap petrol?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Jan 31, 2011 18:30:13 GMT
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That looks very promising. Sitting on a pressurised tank of hydrogen doesn't appeal to me. Plus, if this works we can all run our retros on it!
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Jan 31, 2011 18:45:37 GMT
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sounds promising
but as it only produces water would we loose exhaust noises ? and surley pumping water into an exhuaust is a good way to rot it inside out
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Jan 31, 2011 18:58:34 GMT
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Doubt the Elite oil barons will allow anything like this for a good few years.
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1970 Porsche 911E
2002 Porsche Boxster S
2002 Peugeot Partner 1.9sdi
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Jan 31, 2011 19:14:02 GMT
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Doesn't fill me with confidence. Bet it'll be taxed the same as well.
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Jan 31, 2011 19:14:14 GMT
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It would still burn, so would still make a nice noise. Petrol is mostly made of hydrogen and carbon, when it's burned the hydro-carbon molecules are slit up and the hydrogen and carbon atoms are attached to the oxygen from the air, the carbon makes carbon dioxide, while the hydrogen makes water (well, steam due to the temperature). This is simply removing the carbon part of the process. Otherwise it'll work the same. I'm pretty sure engines would need re-mapping/carbs re-jetting to run on it, but if they really can get hydrogen to stay liquid at ambient temperatures and pressure, then there's no reason your engine wouldn't burn it the same as petrol. Although I'd be slightly worried about its higher calorific value on standard internals, it may need diluting with something or an adjustment in compression ratio.
It sounds very promising. The best thing would be for one of the big oil company's to get involved themselves, they've already got the distribution network set-up, and if it's cheaper to produce than petrol, it's surely in their interests as much as it is anyone else's.
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Jan 31, 2011 21:22:46 GMT
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I remember seeing a BMW prototype hydrogen engine in a 5 series I think. It was a modified version of the standard engine to use hydrogen instead of liquid fuel. I remember them saying that it was 25% down on performance but that could be offset by increased cubic capacity.
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'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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dungbug
Posted a lot
'Ooligan!
Posts: 2,852
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Jan 31, 2011 23:05:18 GMT
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Doubt the Elite oil barons will allow anything like this for a good few years. Kinda what I was thinking, plus the 'taxman' will slap a fair whack on it as well.  |
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Past: 13 VW Beetles from 1967 - 1974
Bay Window Campers (1973 & 1974)
Mini's (1992 Cooper lookalike & 1984 '25 Anniversary)
MK2 Polo Coupe S (1984 & 1986)
MK2 Polo Breadvan (1981 & 1984)
MK4 Escort (1989)
MK2 Granada Based Hearse (seriously)
Fiat Uno 60S (1986) Punto 60S (1998) Cinq (1997)
1998 Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat
2003 Ford KA
Current: 2004 Ford Focus (barely alive)
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cheap petrol?retrowagen1234
@GUEST
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Jan 31, 2011 23:26:40 GMT
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hmmm Great idea. Wont happen though for a long time.
Imho as much as i love the smell of a pinto and driving my car...
Big oil companys need to be pumping alot of money into other modes of transport. Cars themselves are very outdated. The roads are overcrowded and getting anywhere takes forever.
To make matters worse this overcrowding just slows down logistics, And when the logistics cant happen we cant make money. Its a downward spriral without something else implamented.
Personally i think something needs to be done with trains. They seem to hold pricing at ransom. Theres no way it cost what it does per passenger. No where near! And then you get the same fatcats complaning that no one uses the rail service. Its still cheaper for me to drive my car anywhere. Even if i have to sit in traffic for hours...
That would be good for an oil company to get involved in... Diesel train, Running their own fuel from their own refinery. Update the technology at their own pace. As we all know they wont let anyone else rush it...
I digress........
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Jan 31, 2011 23:40:06 GMT
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cheap petrol?
an oxymoron surely
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room. |
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The big problem I see with this is that at the end of the day hydrogen is mostly produced by using electricity to split water.
So we will have a large electricity demand that will put up electricity prices not to mention the fact that it will come from non renewable sources.
Also we will also have a much higher water demand which is not what we need.
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cheap petrol?retrowagen1234
@GUEST
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The big problem I see with this is that at the end of the day hydrogen is mostly produced by using electricity to split water. So we will have a large electricity demand that will put up electricity prices not to mention the fact that it will come from non renewable sources. Also we will also have a much higher water demand which is not what we need. Exactly. People still don't seem to have grasped the fact that electricity doesnt just come out of the wall. Its coming from coal or nuclear powered generation, And most of the equipment and resources are roaded or shipped to these plants using fossil fuels. I think we are heading the wrong way. |
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cheap petrol?retrowagen1234
@GUEST
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I think if someone could wake ol Nikola Tesla up we'd be fine...
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...offset by increased cubic capacity... There's nothing that can't be offset by an increase in cubic capacity! ;D |
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" East bound and down, loaded up and truckin' "
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cheap petrol?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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The big problem I see with this is that at the end of the day hydrogen is mostly produced by using electricity to split water. So we will have a large electricity demand that will put up electricity prices not to mention the fact that it will come from non renewable sources. Also we will also have a much higher water demand which is not what we need. Exactly. People still don't seem to have grasped the fact that electricity doesnt just come out of the wall. Its coming from coal or nuclear powered generation, And most of the equipment and resources are roaded or shipped to these plants using fossil fuels. I think we are heading the wrong way. True, a coal-powered powerstation is going to kick out some serious pollutants, but nuclear is relatively clean and safe despite what the greenies say. Also, energy from renewables such as solar, wind and wave energy are contributing more to the national grid than before (although I can't see it being possible to use 100% renewables). Alternative bio-fuels are a blind alley as the amount of land needed would be at the expense of food crops, which would lead to serious social problems if farmers (particularly in developing countries) had more incentive to grow crops for the West rather than feed their own people. Fuels like this, which work with existing engine technology and fuel station infrastructure have got to be the way forward. I can't even see electric going anywhere as you still have those awful pollutants in the batteries,the weight of the batteries, and the range of the cars still needs to improve massively. Plus, imagine waking up for work one day and realising you forgot to charge your car. You'd be screwed for hours! |
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cheap petrol?retrowagen1234
@GUEST
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Very true. I'm all for nuclear and renewable energy. I'm pretty sure anyone who isnt is just trying to be awkward on the whole green movement.
Personally I don't believe all the hype about global warming , So the whole carbon emmisions thing doesnt even come into my mind, What does interest me is what people can build to work past our current problems, And being held back by stupid new greenie rules isnt helping anything.
As I said before. If we had someone with a bit of what id like to call NUTTER skill, Like tesla , I think it would be possible to build an electric car that didnt need so many batteries. Or storage of any kind.
Tesla experimented with energy and was one of the first people to be silenced by the us government. Thats not me being all tinfoil hat there, That actually happened. And that was because they knew how much revenue would be lost from all corners if people could freely travel or power their homes.
Its been going on since then and will continue to work the same way. Advancement is held back by people with alot of money. As its in theirs and alot of countrys interests not to move forward. Hence my thought that its the oil companys themselves who should be getting in on the action....
I used to work for a battery company and saw first hand the work that goes into making , storing , selling and disposing of a battery. And how much waste is there.
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2011 14:31:29 GMT by retrowagen1234
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sounds promising but as it only produces water would we loose exhaust noises ? and surley pumping water into an exhuaust is a good way to rot it inside out believe me, igniting a stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen will be enough to make a loud bang  |
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2011 14:44:21 GMT by jasonb360
- '80 Mk1 Vauxhall Cavalier Saloon, 3.0l 12v... in progress with some special plans ahead
- '94 106 Rallye, Endurance Rally Car
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Thats not me being all tinfoil hat there, Lmao!! ;D what the hell is 'being all tinfoil hat' Ret and..... can we see it?? ;D |
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'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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I don't see bio as a dead end TBH at least not fully, farners are paid not to grow crops on thier land cos of frikken european laws saying we have to buy crops from other countrys, most farmers I know now rent out workshops to suppliment the subsidies they get to NOT grow crops. turn that land to use and we would have a large portion of extra fuel helping to extend the amount of dino juice we have left, forget ONE answer to the fuel problem, break it down into managable slices of differant answers and it's more obtainable. The problem is the partys that run for office are backed by the rishest peeps and they are invairiably the oil companys so there's no way any goverment that gets in will harm thier backers is there, all comes down to money, commen sense goes out the window  IMHO battery tech is too far behine what we need, slow discharge capaciters are the thing, quick/instant recharge slow discharge, imaging charging a car from a lightening bolt ? free free free  |
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2011 15:36:09 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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cheap petrol?retrowagen1234
@GUEST
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Thats not me being all tinfoil hat there, Lmao!! ;D what the hell is 'being all tinfoil hat' Ret and..... can we see it?? ;D Personally , as of late i prefer the armadillo hat ;D  |
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