kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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May 14, 2009 18:42:18 GMT
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toaster's poncho lump is a good one, as it's ex my f100 pickup truck - it 'kin flew when I had it, and I suspect taking it out to replace with a chevy v8 (to get a manual trans) may well be filed under 'stupid things I regret doing..'
oh well - what you thinking of dropping it in jack??
- kfw
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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May 14, 2009 18:55:10 GMT
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toaster's poncho lump is a good one, as it's ex my f100 pickup truck - it 'kin flew when I had it, and I suspect taking it out to replace with a chevy v8 (to get a manual trans) may well be filed under 'stupid things I regret doing..' oh well - what you thinking of dropping it in jack?? - kfw you must have an old 4x4 laying about somewhere down in sheep country if you want it back.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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May 14, 2009 19:03:57 GMT
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indeed I did see that - feel free to drop me a pm with more details of what your after!
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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May 14, 2009 19:18:15 GMT
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indeed I did see that - feel free to drop me a pm with more details of what your after! Done
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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May 14, 2009 21:27:39 GMT
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Don't get a rover, unless you are happy with poor performance high parts prices and awful fuel consumption, they are however tough I must have had 6-8 at least and never killed one yet... the oil pressure can drop to virtually nothing the cam lobes dissaper and yet they keep on trucking!
Fit a 302 Ford the slightly higher purchase price will be offset the first time something breaks and every time you fill up at the pumps, a mate of mine has a huge day van with a 302 and autobox in it does 25+mpg on a run and his is loaded up with a fridge big telly all mod cons etc, and he doesn't hang around either, whereas not a single one of my many Rv8 powered CARS has ever really topped 20mpg with any consistency most hover around the 12-15mpg mk
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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I'm not sure I believe 25+ from a gayvan. The weight and aerodynamics are against it whatever engine is in there! My Lexarse has all the economode EFI computer stuff on it and averages 22 MPG and I drive like an old lady most of the time.
Agreed most Rover cars will be no better on fuel than most small block Ford or Chevy powered cars.
The ones I bothered to work out MPG for (ie the ones I used as daily drivers for any period of time) break down like this:
340 Buick 17 MPG 318 Chrysler 17 MPG 318 Chrysler 14 MPG (although this one always ran a bit "off") 425 Oldsmobile 13 MPG (seven litres and 2+ tons of car) 3.5 Rover P5B 18 MPG 290 AMC about 17 MPG as I recall. 4.1 Cadillac 14.5 MPG 4.0 Lexus LS400 22.9 MPG (according to the computer)
So if MPG is your only concern just whack any mid-sized small block V8 in it. Or suffer the electronic nightmare as it does appear to save fuel!
I never found parts that expensive for my Rover. Fairly cheap I would even have said. Especially compared to most Japanese or European brands or "odd" American ones.
Cheapest parts are for small block Chevy. Ford and Mopar follow on and AMC, Pontiac, Olds, Cadillac are in about that order of price IMO
Fords are slightly dearer than Chevies to buy, but are smaller, lighter and with their front mount distributor are easier to fit in small cars where you need to tuck 'em up tight to the bulkhead. Mopar 318s are pretty much give away prices (about the same as a complete running Rover) and are similar size and weight to the Ford but the distributor is at the back.
The Rover has the advantage that you can usually bag one cheap, the parts are all off the shelf in the UK, distributor on the front, light and fairly compact.
If you have the money an LSn GM engine is the same size and weight as the Rover but makes significantly more power... The basic 5.7 litre one is 345 BHP as I recall and good fuel efficiency. Not a cheap option though. But nice engines.
LPG is also a valid response to fuel consumption concerns....
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Is this for a bedford camper - wouldn't a TDI lump be better?
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May 15, 2009 12:57:48 GMT
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best of both worlds...
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 15, 2009 13:05:15 GMT
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Well, if you want appalling performance and hideous fuel consumption, yea 130hp and 240ft.lb........Egads! All that for about 15mpg.
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May 15, 2009 13:08:35 GMT
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I've seen some of those big V8 and V10 diesels tuned for serious go though. Lotsa black smoke and a roar like some prehistoric monster. Gotta love that. Like an 18-wheeler on PCP.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 15, 2009 13:13:22 GMT
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OT but:
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May 15, 2009 15:50:18 GMT
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standard rover parts not necessarily expensive compared to yank parts, but tuning parts seem to be dearer.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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I don't want to come across as harsh or negative but I really don't get all this "Just drop a V8 in FTW" mentality. Engine conversions, even same manufacturer and model ones are IMO pretty hard work and beyond the scope of most of us (in terms of tools, time, workspace, money etc). I feel I can say that because I've done simple ones with friends - and in reality they weren't that simple.
How many people have actually done something like this, picked a specific engine and stuffed it into a car it never belonged in? I know Alistair has and he seems to have the most realistic stance on this. I'm sure a few others have too, what's your opinions?
It just sounds like a lot of Internet theorising to me - Am I wrong to think that?
Surely the right answer here is "What ever is the easiest" - I don't know what the specific van in question is but if it ever came with a V8 in then surely that is the one to go for, since the manufacturer did all the hard work for you. Failing that then it seems far more logical to just buy something else that fits the criteria?
On the topic of the K10 Diesel V8 - If these are so appalling and hideous why are they so sought after by all the Chev 4x4 fans, such as a friend of mine who spent about 6 years finding the right one. Again too much Wikipedia and not enough real life imo.
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,764
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May 16, 2009 10:45:54 GMT
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Don't get a rover, unless you are happy with poor performance high parts prices and awful fuel consumption, they are however tough I must have had 6-8 at least and never killed one yet... the oil pressure can drop to virtually nothing the cam lobes dissaper and yet they keep on trucking! I'm quite partial to a RV8, Ive got my present one running mid 12s, tops out somwhere around 150mph, on a private road, of course!! and if I'm nice to it, I have got 33mpg out of it on a motorway run, welly it around town and single figures are easy to obtain, but I used to get single figures out of a silly X flow too giving it welly around town,
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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May 16, 2009 11:30:29 GMT
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I understand they can be tuned to give good performance I am thinking why bother when good performance is available elsewhere in stock form from something that isn't even trying.
I'm happy with the idea of single figures round town if I use my right foot a lot but this van is for long distance ambling.
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1985 Bedford CF2 camper 1991 Volvo 240 Turbo
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May 16, 2009 12:37:37 GMT
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I don't want to come across as harsh or negative but I really don't get all this "Just drop a V8 in FTW" mentality. Engine conversions, even same manufacturer and model ones are IMO pretty hard work and beyond the scope of most of us (in terms of tools, time, workspace, money etc). I feel I can say that because I've done simple ones with friends - and in reality they weren't that simple. How many people have actually done something like this, picked a specific engine and stuffed it into a car it never belonged in? I know Alistair has and he seems to have the most realistic stance on this. I'm sure a few others have too, what's your opinions? It just sounds like a lot of Internet theorising to me - Am I wrong to think that? Surely the right answer here is "What ever is the easiest" - I don't know what the specific van in question is but if it ever came with a V8 in then surely that is the one to go for, since the manufacturer did all the hard work for you. Failing that then it seems far more logical to just buy something else that fits the criteria? On the topic of the K10 Diesel V8 - If these are so appalling and hideous why are they so sought after by all the Chev 4x4 fans, such as a friend of mine who spent about 6 years finding the right one. Again too much Wikipedia and not enough real life imo. I've done loads, and its always the cheapest way to get a decent amount more performance, engine swops are as complicated as you make them and mostly its only hard through lack of tools or ability, any RWD engine and box only needs a hole big enough to fit in, 3 attachment points to the car, fuel, exhaust and water lines, control cables/linkages, a prop shaft and a connection to the battery and ignition switch either direct or through an ECU. way simpler than proper tuning if your trying to do it yourself and if you say just buy off the shelf stuff then you may as well say pay for an engine transplant, big engines are (usually) nicer to drive, more reliable and better on fuel than tuned small ones as well.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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May 16, 2009 17:09:31 GMT
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Not done a conversion as such but have fitted a 940 turbo engine into my 240 (same shape block and head but still took some thinking about. The Van in this case is a Bedford CF, I know a v8 will fit because I have seen it done (or mocked up at least) and I know its been done many times before. I would never get the payoff in performance vs work carried out from the current engine (I have considered supercharging (eaton M90 I have spare) and other engine swaps Jeep inline 6, turbo diesels,volvo inline 6 24v etc) Pics nicked from Aqua Genius (hope thats ok Ade) And while I'm at it I can convert to PAS too. ;p
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1985 Bedford CF2 camper 1991 Volvo 240 Turbo
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May 16, 2009 17:35:57 GMT
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Getting a V8 in a CF is a reasonable amount of work. Like Popup says if the hole is big enough then anything will go in. The problem is the hole is rarely big enough when going big engine -> small car and certainly the big issue in most swaps (especially V8s into formerly 4 pot cars) is the interfereance with the steering. The sump will often want to sit where the rack is and the offside exhaust manifold will usually want to be where the steering column is. On many smaller engine bays there can be fowling between the brake servo and the offside valve cover or worse the head itself and also if you have a hydraulic clutch the master cylinder for this can conflict with the valve cover on the driver side.
All this is doable. I've seen a fair few nasty bodges (racks dropped like 2" to clear a sump, then the owner wonders why it bump steers like fury) and all manner of angle iron tacked in place, and I've seen plenty of unfinished conversions. Remote servos, and rally bias boxes or street rod underfloor hydraulics can all help out.
As Popup says the basic job of dropping an engine and trans in and making it run isnt that much like rocket science. What really seprates the men from the boys is the ability to make it all work PROPERLY - decent front/back weight bias, steering, working speedo, temp guage, warning lights, etc.
Best thing to do is speak to someone who has converted your type of vehicle and see what bother they got into and plan how to avoid that.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 16, 2009 19:11:58 GMT
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sage and sobering words there ak. been thinking about plopping a chev 350/350 combo in my carlton wagon and just looking at where the steering box sticks out in the bay is enough to put me off lol.
suterman, quick tip to make your cih motor feel a lot better,ditch the standard "van" dizzy for a"car" one. one of tcc,s manta,s developed a dizzy fualt and the only one handy was a cf unit. it was horrendous with that fitted, wouldnt pull past 50/60 ish and it felt like a slug. id also change the head for a manta gte one, much better cam. ;D
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"quote hairnet"
I'm not paying nine pound for a pi$$!
[/quote]
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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May 16, 2009 19:18:32 GMT
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I've built and completely restored/tuned many many cars both professionally and personally, i've done a few sensible engine conversions but never anything completely barking (no meteor engines in SD1's etc)... I've built everything from vintage race cars and classic Aston Martins right up to 500bhp turbo J stuff like Pulsars and Supras, I've never advertised and never needed to all my work comes from satisfied customers recommending me...
I've owned a few old yanks worked on loads and been very impressed with the engines and parts prices, conversely I've owned virtually every type of Rover V8 from the P5b to a 4.6 Rangie (still own both) and virtually every one in between, any never been truley happy with any of them.. The P5 is getting a olds 350 (cus I have one) and the Rangie if the engine ever lets go is getting a Chev 350 like an Overfinch, though I've never driven a P38 with any engine swap I've guessing it'll go well.....
The big advantage of tuning is it keeps the car relatively together allowing for easy lightweight work which most people find palatable in a small garage or driveway, you tend to find people who do major conversions and proper restorations have good workshops or at least a barn or summat where you can get round things and lay stuff out...
In this case the standard engine is a bit of a damp squib and not really up to the job required tuning it will kill the mpg, reduce the reliability, and likely move the usable power away from where it's needed in a camper, however a swap to something with loads of low down torque will make the thing very usable and pleasant to drive and with the engine working less hard mpg will increase..
The reason I say what I say about RV8's is; say he buys a cheap 3.9 RV8 thsi is what I think it'd need:
You may as well buy a cheap one and rebuild as most are 'well used' and any old RV8 that's done 100k prob needs rebuilding..
Engine: £150 Gearbox £100 (BW35) new set of rings and bearings (£100) (£200 if new pistons are needed) new duplex timing chain £120 (it will be knackered) New cam (£175) it WILL be knackered) Full Gasket set (with composite HG and valley, £90)
So not much change out of a grand and it only been refreshed, not completely rebuilt.... And really you need a better distributor as the standard one is awful, (+£200) and ideally a better carb as the SU manifold is dire which will be another £500 with a decent manifold...
Out of this lot you will get approx 175bhp with 230lb/ft of torque hardly life shattering
So onto the 302
Ok the stock engine will set you back £500 but if you get a decent one with respectable compression and a 4bbl carb it'll have 220bhp and 300lb/ft before you even start.. 65 Factor in a complete rebuild kit £250 (which includes everything from new forged pistons to plastiguages to set it up) the only thing it wont contain is a cam so you'll have to buy a performance one +lifters separately for about £70..
Once this is done you'll have about 250-60bhp 350lb/ft and it'll owe you £800 and you'll be safe in the knowledge that if it blows up you'll only be out another £250 for a rebuild kit..
Like I said before that rebuild kit contains everything from a water pump new, complete set of bearings, core plugs, all gaskets, new pistons timing gear, literally everything you could think of needing bar the cam and lifters
That's my argument I speak from experience (built one for a customer last year, doing another one in a few months), take it or leave it.....
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Last Edit: May 16, 2009 19:24:01 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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