fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,593
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Mar 19, 2009 13:39:36 GMT
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It is not my intention to stir things on this board, but I have to say I don't totally understand this 'Whinge Bin' mentality.
If someone is just having a general moan then, fair enough, dump the thread in the 'whinge bin'.
But why are threads like the '£2500 to scrap your old car' put in the Bin?
This is an important issue that affects all of us interested in the old car movement so why not discuss it on these forums?
Many enthusiasts may not be aware of the scheme unless they read about it on here so, if and when it is introduced, it will be too late for them to make their feelings about such things known.
I fully accept that if the Government intend to introduce such a scheme then they will probably do so anyway - but there's no harm in letting them know how we feel about it. IMHO the specialists magazines and internet forums like this should be doing all they can to promote awareness in instances like this and fight against it. Putting such threads in a 'Whing bin' is akin to burying your head in the sand and hoping that change isn't going to happen.
This a wasted opportunity - a strong forum like this should be fighting against anything that is likely to adversely affect our hobby - be it car scrapping schemes, continuous taxation, unworkable IVA schemes or whatever.
The ironic thing is, of course that, rather than being left open here for an intelligent debate, this thread will more than likely also end up in the 'Whinge Bin'.
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Mar 19, 2009 13:49:33 GMT
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Read the rules, its all makes sense, I'd rather there wasn't a bin at all and stuff was just deleted, but the WB is a compromise.
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Mar 19, 2009 14:14:29 GMT
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i sort of agree but I'm not going to get involved ,.... oooooops
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Mar 19, 2009 14:24:57 GMT
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I think it's a good point, but the problem is that many threads are made up off possible proposals, usually ones which have been misunderstood (usually the actions of the press trying to whip up a frenzy) or not really read properly. Especially when they say "the government are going to do this!" when it is just at proposal stage. Hell, even when it is past the proposal stage and has all been agreed, the facts are missed in favour of moaning.
e.g. I remember there was a huge fuss at some point about road tax and how we were all going to be skint and we'd never be able to drive again and we'll all have to emigrate etc. (yes, someone said they were going to move to Australia or something because of it)
In reality, pre-2001 road tax went up a fiver for both bands (below/above 1549cc) for 2008/09, with a further increase of £15 for the higher band only in 2009/10. I don't like paying more money either, but to be honest I was pretty pleased with it as some people with newer emissions-taxed cars were getting absolutely hammered, yet I can continue pottering around with a barely noticable increase. If you think that's worth moving to Australia for, perhaps you've been watching Neighbours too much.
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Mar 19, 2009 14:25:58 GMT
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But why are threads like the '£2500 to scrap your old car' put in the Bin? Because that is what people like ACE are for.. We talk about (mainly)old(er) cars, modified ones preferably,.. not the politics (both scene and government) that surround them. I leave that to the fine organisations that are there for that very purpose. In terms of the 2.5k thread, I let it run until there was a suitable conclusion, which Fredtransit's very well thought out post made. If you feel strongly about the politics that surround our particular hobby (as I hope you do), join up with ACE, or FBHVC, or NSRA and actually DO something, doing it here isn't really the most effective use of your time.
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Last Edit: Mar 19, 2009 14:27:02 GMT by HoTWire
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Mar 19, 2009 14:34:04 GMT
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Also It is not my intention to stir things on this board, Well clearly it is. Many enthusiasts may not be aware of the scheme unless they read about it on here so, if and when it is introduced, it will be too late for them to make their feelings about such things known. If something is actually happening beyond vaugue proposal stage then I'm sure it'll get raised here by ACE representatives or NSRA reprasentatives or people from the various magazines, when they actually need our help. Where we won't talk about it, we'll DO something about it, in line with whatever ACE, NSRA etc. advise.
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joda
Part of things
Posts: 672
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Mar 19, 2009 14:39:09 GMT
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i don't look at the winge bin as its full of moaning curse word, but in interested in this 2.5k for old car thing you mentioned, away for a look
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Mar 19, 2009 14:45:54 GMT
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I don't look at the winge bin as its full of moaning old women, but in interested in this 2.5k for old car thing you mentioned, away for a look The proposed scheme (that already runs in a number of countries) is badged up by car people as "government offering 2.5k to scrap old cars".. fact is : "government is offering to part exchange all cars at a flat fee of 2.5k, will scrap any that it gets",.. still kind of sucks,.. but a little bit less scary. Seriously though everyone should be visiting : www.the-ace.org.uk/current-issues.html every day if they are interested in these things. If you're not interested enough in what goes on with your hobby to do that... then you don't get to whinge about it afterwards.
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Filthyjohn
Part of things
Currently on the road: 1/11
Posts: 705
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Mar 19, 2009 14:57:56 GMT
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I can confirm that these schemes are running next month in Italy, Germany and France IIRC. We're working overtime to meet a predicted rise in demand for new cars.
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Last Edit: Mar 19, 2009 15:00:09 GMT by Filthyjohn
'95 Volvo 945 Turbo
'87 Volvo 765 TIC
'75 Opel Manta A 2.0 16v,
'86 Volvo 360 turbo,
'62 amazon,
'67 MGB GT.
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Mar 19, 2009 15:00:58 GMT
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I can confirm that these schemes are running next month in Italy, Germany and France IIRC. We're working overtime to meet a predicted rise demand. I thought the German one was already running?
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Mar 19, 2009 15:15:23 GMT
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Whether fogey has made a justifiable observation or not, regarding the whinge bin, isnt it a tad harsh to believe that, merely posting a query, is tantamount to a mutiny against the owners of the forum and its ethos? This forum works brilliantly because it is well moderated, we all know where we stand, we all accept its content, direction and philosopy, nobody would argue that point. There was a belief, from a member, that an issue surrounding the possible future, or lack of, of our hobby could be under threat. They felt it was wholly relevent to the forum and they wondered why it was binned. I don't believe that they were being subversive only quizzical. I think the explanation offered, as to why it was binned, was fair and constructive, however, the view that they were posting to stir things was neither.
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Mar 19, 2009 15:20:29 GMT
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I don't believe that they were being subversive only quizzical. I think the explanation offered, as to why it was binned, was fair and constructive, however, the view that they were posting to stir things was neither. Possibly you are right,.. but then why not PM me for an explination as most people do. I find that if someones thread gets deleted or whinge binned or edited, if they want to make a big issue out of it with a debate they start a new thread, if they are genuinely curious and want an answer they PM me.... I applied the same thought to this thread... but thats just my experience. Its like when people start a sentance with "I don't mean to be rude... but..." ... you know they mean to be rude.
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Mar 19, 2009 15:26:54 GMT
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I have to confess I don't agree with everything that ends up in the WB but then this forum is not a democracy.
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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Mar 19, 2009 15:27:48 GMT
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Easily put, as i see it. This forum is for positive car related (and other stuff) things, if you have something that isnt positive, take it to another forum The net is -filled- with forums for complaining and whining
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Filthyjohn
Part of things
Currently on the road: 1/11
Posts: 705
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Mar 19, 2009 16:00:51 GMT
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I thought the German one was already running? I can't say for sure. We're doing 40 hours overtime next month, across 2 shifts. That's 2000 extra cars, and the scrap incentive was the reason given.
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'95 Volvo 945 Turbo
'87 Volvo 765 TIC
'75 Opel Manta A 2.0 16v,
'86 Volvo 360 turbo,
'62 amazon,
'67 MGB GT.
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Mar 19, 2009 17:20:13 GMT
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I thought the German one was already running? I can't say for sure. We're doing 40 hours overtime next month, across 2 shifts. That's 2000 extra cars, and the scrap incentive was the reason given. Just out of curiosity, who do you work for? I was under the impression that in the recesion we are apparently having people still aren't buying new cars. So i can't see any monetary incentive making a difference tbh.
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OAP drifta Volvo 340,Williams power 1960 Beetle twin 40's 1776cc
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tri
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,572
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Mar 19, 2009 18:07:27 GMT
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Well i know a lot of people aren't buying new cars, as they're having trouble selling their old ones, so I guess it would help in that way?
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I forgot how to retro...
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Mar 19, 2009 18:32:41 GMT
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I can't say for sure. We're doing 40 hours overtime next month, across 2 shifts. That's 2000 extra cars, and the scrap incentive was the reason given. Just out of curiosity, who do you work for? I was under the impression that in the recesion we are apparently having people still aren't buying new cars. So I can't see any monetary incentive making a difference tbh. Nissan Sunderland id guess.. we take aluminium up there for them to turn into engines. More cars= more engines= roof over head
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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Fuzzy
Part of things
Powered by bees.
Posts: 553
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Mar 19, 2009 18:53:01 GMT
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I don't mind the whinge bin, but do you have to lock the threads?
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,593
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Mar 19, 2009 19:13:13 GMT
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Also It is not my intention to stir things on this board, Well clearly it is. Many enthusiasts may not be aware of the scheme unless they read about it on here so, if and when it is introduced, it will be too late for them to make their feelings about such things known. If something is actually happening beyond vaugue proposal stage then I'm sure it'll get raised here by ACE representatives or NSRA reprasentatives or people from the various magazines, when they actually need our help. Where we won't talk about it, we'll DO something about it, in line with whatever ACE, NSRA etc. advise.
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